Yo fuck this density nerf.

read every one of my posts in this thread, it's all explained in thorough details.

big picture is hypocrisy

this is what is the most present thing int his thread.

you want killing mobs because it is 'fun'? i doubt. you want to kill mobs because they give loot. you want loot because tlit is valuable. you want valuable because it makes you feel better

problem? you want loot yet you want it to be valuable. pick one. if everyone can get loot then it is worthless.

the bigger density -> the more loot. the more loot -> the more cries about 'bosses drop nothing'

funny when this 'nothing' comes from people getting showered with 100s of items per map to the point nothin is picked up

right now people whine drops are worthless because the do not drop exalts / T1 uniques from.each drop. everything else is filtered out

this is unsustainable. when the best way to acquire items is to skip them entirely and leave the picking up to peons then the game has become clicker


guys. you want to have valuable loot? it has to be scarce and require some effort to get. otherwise it will be worthless. if everyone can get something then it has no value except its intistic use.

it is funny when some of you think that you are special and you and only you deserve to get valuable drops. it is really really fun.

btw nerfing mob density was necessary and i bet they wont change it back. 3.0 slowed the inevitable transition into clicker game with 1bim dps values..

I did. No valid reason given, thats why I ask.

Your points are:
1. Linear layouts are better than maze layouts - True
2. GGG cant buff maze layouts, so they have to nerf linear layouts - Wrong
3. It is a tool to stop players from reaching lvl100 in a week - Didnt work
4. It´s an intended nerf for flask builds - Nerf flasks then
5. Sextants are too good - Nerf sextants then
6. The usual "back in beta it was different..." - Noone cares what happened some years ago, we are talking about today
7. The game had to be slowed down - Says who and for what reason?

"

sidtherat wrote:

big picture is hypocrisy

this is what is the most present thing int his thread.

you want killing mobs because it is 'fun'? i doubt. you want to kill mobs because they give loot. you want loot because tlit is valuable. you want valuable because it makes you feel better

problem? you want loot yet you want it to be valuable. pick one. if everyone can get loot then it is worthless.

the bigger density -> the more loot. the more loot -> the more cries about 'bosses drop nothing'

funny when this 'nothing' comes from people getting showered with 100s of items per map to the point nothin is picked up

right now people whine drops are worthless because the do not drop exalts / T1 uniques from.each drop. everything else is filtered out

this is unsustainable. when the best way to acquire items is to skip them entirely and leave the picking up to peons then the game has become clicker


guys. you want to have valuable loot? it has to be scarce and require some effort to get. otherwise it will be worthless. if everyone can get something then it has no value except its intistic use.

it is funny when some of you think that you are special and you and only you deserve to get valuable drops. it is really really fun.

btw nerfing mob density was necessary and i bet they wont change it back. 3.0 slowed the inevitable transition into clicker game with 1bim dps values..

Is this posted in the wrong topic? There is not a single person in here complaining about loot.

The only thing that is being argued is they could and SHOULD have taken another way rather then to nerf density. Density was already an issue in most maps, and it's worse now. It's not fun to run 5 screens without seeing a single monster. But like I said before, GGG could literally shit on someone's face in public and people would defend it.

it is the correct topic. i just skipped the excuses and attacked the main issue: maps are less rewarding now


how many ever used vaal brach to kill mobs? none? right. because some of you claim killing mobs is fun. but they do not drop loot/xp.. oh.. so it is not about fun but about rewards in the end

so just skip the deception and attavk the rewards.

note: maps like residence and palace are STILL broken. agreed. but situayion in 2.6 was unsustainable. some maps were already so crowded that it looked simply STUPUD

how do you expect to sustain the game where players are motivated ONLY with rewards? iy does not work for long. it is better to get rid of such motivation (with players if necessary) to keep the game healthy long term

2.4->2.5->2.6 was unsustainable. no chance to feed players more rewards at that pace. in 2.8 players would not play without real dollars being dropped. it was going to reach this point of entitlement and expected 'rewards' really really quickly

nerfing it (slightly. be real. it is not an end of the world) is called 'managing expectations'. playerbase cannot expect to get everything because once the chase is over there is nothing left. this game is not about skill after all but abouy relative and absolute wealth. you cannot rain wealth freely for too long if you want to keep people playing

"

Orbaal wrote:

I did. No valid reason given, thats why I ask.

Your points are:
1. Linear layouts are better than maze layouts - True
2. GGG cant buff maze layouts, so they have to nerf linear layouts - Wrong
3. It is a tool to stop players from reaching lvl100 in a week - Didnt work
4. It´s an intended nerf for flask builds - Nerf flasks then
5. Sextants are too good - Nerf sextants then
6. The usual "back in beta it was different..." - Noone cares what happened some years ago, we are talking about today
7. The game had to be slowed down - Says who and for what reason?

Way to cherry pick my examples and treat them as if they were the point made before those examples. I r8 8/8 nice b8.

In the event that this isn't a bait and you actually can't read, I will answer your post.

2. How do you propose they buff maze layouts.
3. The game had to be slowed down, example made of people reaching level 100 in 40 hours~, this is what we call an extreme case, valid nonetheless.
4. Refer to the word "also" stating that this is a byproduct, meaning they achieve multiple goals with one simple change.
5. Sextants are rarer than pope's crap, this was only to justify the extreme nerf to strand. Which in my opinion, is too much anyways and they actually should've moved some sextant nodes out of range of it instead, this was already said in one of my posts.
6. Nice missing the point I so eloquently made, they are adding density each league, at some point density had to be toned down to make room for future stuff, such as harbingers.
7. see 6.

Have a good day.

"

sidtherat wrote:

it is the correct topic. i just skipped the excuses and attacked the main issue: maps are less rewarding now


how many ever used vaal brach to kill mobs? none? right. because some of you claim killing mobs is fun. but they do not drop loot/xp.. oh.. so it is not about fun but about rewards in the end

so just skip the deception and attavk the rewards.

note: maps like residence and palace are STILL broken. agreed. but situayion in 2.6 was unsustainable. some maps were already so crowded that it looked simply STUPUD

how do you expect to sustain the game where players are motivated ONLY with rewards? iy does not work for long. it is better to get rid of such motivation (with players if necessary) to keep the game healthy long term

2.4->2.5->2.6 was unsustainable. no chance to feed players more rewards at that pace. in 2.8 players would not play without real dollars being dropped. it was going to reach this point of entitlement and expected 'rewards' really really quickly

nerfing it (slightly. be real. it is not an end of the world) is called 'managing expectations'. playerbase cannot expect to get everything because once the chase is over there is nothing left. this game is not about skill after all but abouy relative and absolute wealth. you cannot rain wealth freely for too long if you want to keep people playing

That's strange. In legacy half my guild was still playing after 2 months. After 1 week in this league it's a ghost guild. Just coincidence right?

Please don't use PoE and rewarding in the same sentence, this game is the embodiment of unrewarding. That's why people look for loopholes and strategies to speed clear and don't bother with 99.99999% of everything that drops.

My point still stands though, you are arguing your own made up context wich is not what this topic has been about so far. But continue, as you please.

I like running every map, have almost the entire atlas complete. At the same time, some of my friends like to only run efficient map layouts. I don't see why their playstyle should be nerfed, since it doesn't really effect me in any way.

"

painfrais wrote:

Way to cherry pick my examples and treat them as if they were the point made before those examples. I r8 8/8 nice b8.

In the event that this isn't a bait and you actually can't read, I will answer your post.

2. How do you propose they buff maze layouts.
3. The game had to be slowed down, example made of people reaching level 100 in 40 hours~, this is what we call an extreme case, valid nonetheless.
4. Refer to the word "also" stating that this is a byproduct, meaning they achieve multiple goals with one simple change.
5. Sextants are rarer than pope's crap, this was only to justify the extreme nerf to strand. Which in my opinion, is too much anyways and they actually should've moved some sextant nodes out of range of it instead, this was already said in one of my posts.
6. Nice missing the point I so eloquently made, they are adding density each league, at some point density had to be toned down to make room for future stuff, such as harbingers.
7. see 6.

Have a good day.

Didnt mean to cherry pick and I´m genuinely interested in your point of view, because I dont get it.
Thats why I asked.

2a. Provide more IIR and/or IIQ for those shitmaps, buff boss drops on those maps or whatever needed to make them attractive. Its the same procedure, just reversed. Means: Dont destroy fun stuff and force players into non fun stuff. Buff the non fun stuff to make it a viable option.
2b. Remove those maze maps and use new layouts from the expansion to create more attractive maps that can rival the current goto maps. In short: Provide real options, dont destroy them.
3. Dont care. Doesnt effect my playstyle or anyone elses. No reason to nerf 99.9% of the population to stop or slow down 0.1% of the server population. Thats just lazy.
If you wanted to slow down those players, decrease the xp gaim from lvl X onwards or increase the xp thresholds needed to lvlup. Nerfing density is the wrong approach.
4. fair enough
5. Agreed, but again doesnt justify density nerfs. As you suggested, moving the position of maps on the Atlas itself would have been the correct solution. And thats not a difficult task. Should be doable without much effort or investment. Again: Nerfing density is the wrong approach.
6. Harbingers dont really add to density. They spawn like 3-4 packs and thats it. You dont have to nerf density as much as they did, just to implement Harbingers.
And if your argument is "Well what about new content in the future?" my response is "Nerf things if need be, do not make room for features that dont even exist. Thats stupid"

So all of your points are atlas related, map expansion or tuning the atlas, which in my opinion should be near the top of the list for what they're going to do next. So everything is good.
You also pointed changes that only adress half the problem. This all stems from density being too high, why go for the finicky changes like reducing iir iiq and then nerfing the flasks and changing rampage, instead of simply changing whatever makes everything too good(the density).