Yo fuck this density nerf.

yeah this was the worst change in 3.0, even worse than every fun build and ES getting gutted

"

allbusiness wrote:

'Spoiled/Entitled'


You mean the entire purpose of playing an ARPG is to get valuable loot/gear and be able to either use it or trade it? Didn't know that made you 'entitled'.


The last few leagues were highly successful in player retention for a reason, and alot of it has to do with the fact that many people were capable of reaching endgame status within reasonable amounts of time. Many other games pushed away from their 'super hardcore grindy' nature of time wasting because they found out that making players happy also equates to players spending more money.


People like sidtherat think like everyone was walking around fully decked out in full CI gear that was 15k ES plus and had headhunters/full vaal fireball setups. That was maybe like 1% of the population tops. I'm not even sure why anyone thinks that was remotely achievable by the average player, only the most hardcore players were able to reach that level of gear.

I don't know where you got your conclusions from other then personal opinion, so i'm pretty much going to discard those.

As for the "loot/gear" argument, that's a non issue since GGG could instantly double the drop rate of all mobs in the game while keeping the mob density.
But they didn't and since we can assume GGG as a business wants to survive and they use certain metrics to determine the value's of xp/loot per mob unit these value's are reasonable and within their projected field.

I reckon if they think current progression is to slow they will adjust it.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

So trappers can just fuck off is what i get from you?

So then as somebody that regularly plays traps "fuck off" back at you.

You think a trapper with a full aoe orientation can keep up with content like breach and their spawn-rate? Or just plain doubling of all packs?

All you do is focus on your fun, neglecting the implications and balance factors involved in such a change, mind me if i'm not entirely convinced when people with that attitude come up with "bright suggestions".

The argument keeps coming up for a reason. Certain play-styles and skills/set-ups can not compete with others when you ramp up the game more and more and more.
That's logical since they where designed in a game-state where the full mass was lower.

So the logical solution, considering this is a "game" is to first decide do we want to ramp it up yes/no? and then bring older mechanics(like traps) in line with that new vision as well as ramp up older skills designed in a lower mass game-state.

Breach was a fucking disaster for builds that don't use leech or hybrid set-ups or trappers....and the list continues. Obviously some of you will be oblivious to that since you don't push content in
non-optimal settings neglecting the full scope of available options to players.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : walking my dogs allbusiness i'll respond after that.

So ask for buffs for trap cooldown recovery? I've played tons of trappers and did fine playing them. I just tapered my expectations to what my build could accomplish. I actually played a trapper in breach as my league starter.

Was it rough leveling? Hell yeah... but once I got all my gear I was speed clearing whatever the shaped map of my choice was in that league with no issue. I played both a poison prolif trapper as well as a lightning trapper (which is actually one of my favorite builds ever). BOTH in breach nonetheless. I, however, did not make a fucking bear trap build and start complaining that shit was too hard. YOU HAVE TO TAILOR A BUILD TO THE CONTENT...if you don't want to do that then play standard. SIMPLE.

A game can't be balanced by looking at the either the lowest common denominator OR the highest common denominator.

Look what happens when GGG balances around the top 1% meta over the last few leagues. Players with "normal" builds got fucked even harder because their average clear speed got even worse.

Why must the entire game be nerfed to allow builds with "non-optimal settings" feel good? Why not ask for buffs to those non-optimal builds so that they CAN compete? I know crazy notion.

BALANCE SHOULD HAPPEN ON BOTH ENDS...but in the case of players (primarily old stubborn beta players), there can only be happiness when everything gets slowed down.

My argument is speed up the slow people!! I love trappers as much as the next person...but the reason people started building around cheap construction and sunblast is because trappers HAD to become bombers since AOE nerfs also effected stupid shit like trap trigger radius.

What you are asking for are playstyles that need to be buffed. I do not disagree with you at all in that regard. I am saying, however, that there are some non-optimal setups that will NEVER peform to the standard of average AOE clearing builds.

Similarly, I can't expect to down Shaper with my AOE spammy crap unless I want a 2 hour fight.

There is a place for everything, but players are looking for some magic "jack of all trades" that is getting harder and harder to find.

"

Prisus wrote:

So ask for buffs for trap cooldown recovery?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1964842

Something like this?

As for the trapper etc, it's just one example.

And adapt to the content is fine, if it's a league mechanic like breach, not when it's the base-line game/content. At least not on things as broad as mob density, boss encounters requiring specific set-ups seems fine to me if they are top-tier content to strive for.(as in a minimal part of actual provided content)

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

'Spoiled/Entitled'


You mean the entire purpose of playing an ARPG is to get valuable loot/gear and be able to either use it or trade it? Didn't know that made you 'entitled'.


The last few leagues were highly successful in player retention for a reason, and alot of it has to do with the fact that many people were capable of reaching endgame status within reasonable amounts of time. Many other games pushed away from their 'super hardcore grindy' nature of time wasting because they found out that making players happy also equates to players spending more money.


People like sidtherat think like everyone was walking around fully decked out in full CI gear that was 15k ES plus and had headhunters/full vaal fireball setups. That was maybe like 1% of the population tops. I'm not even sure why anyone thinks that was remotely achievable by the average player, only the most hardcore players were able to reach that level of gear.

I don't know where you got your conclusions from other then personal opinion, so i'm pretty much going to discard those.

As for the "loot/gear" argument, that's a non issue since GGG could instantly double the drop rate of all mobs in the game while keeping the mob density.
But they didn't and since we can assume GGG as a business wants to survive and they use certain metrics to determine the value's of xp/loot per mob unit these value's are reasonable and within their projected field.

I reckon if they think current progression is to slow they will adjust it.

Peace,

-Boem-

GGG has been well known to knee jerk nerf react to tons of things. Poison getting nerfed 4 times in a row during the closed beta and refusal to disclose their actual reasons is just one of many examples. The mob density nerf was a total overreaction and total knee jerk reaction to what they felt like was an issue.


Also I bet my life savings Legacy had the highest player retention rate out of all the leagues, so having loot pinata league doesn't actually kill the league, it extends the life of it because many times players are able to feel like they are realistically able to achieve certain goals. The only argument that the "slow down the game" side can provide is that raining loot on players kills the game, when in fact, the evidence shows the complete opposite effect.

imho map density is too low, looking for mobs i fall asleep much faster than in 2.6.x

i would have apreciated you just increased the required souls on vaal skills to nerf them.

overall the xp gain feels rubbish everywhere. just no fun grinding. my top level char is stranded (pun not intended) at lvl 89. Would never level over 90. no siree.

What are u thinking GiGeGi?

"

Saltygames wrote:

overall the xp gain feels rubbish everywhere. just no fun grinding. my top level char is stranded (pun not intended) at lvl 89. Would never level over 90. no siree.

What are u thinking GiGeGi?

Yeah i'm feeling the turn-off already and i'm projecting ill probably cap out at lvl 90 this league, when i used to push to 92 before putting the char away and go do an alt.

I think the density nerf was a bit overdone, but i think most of all the reduction of xp per mob is the real issue.

then there is the discrepancy between people that shape the atlas purely for XP gains/hour and sextant abuses vs people playing regularly doing none of that stuff.
I think this leads to a big sour point for the entire community, since only the top 5% do the hard push methods(assumption) on which the nerfs are aimed/based around.

they should really tone down the effect sextants have on xp/hour and continue to optimize relative xp/hour ratio's between maps themselves, making atlas tuning less relevant as a balance factor/concern for xp pushing.


Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

then there is the discrepancy between people that shape the atlas purely for XP gains/hour and sextant abuses vs people playing regularly doing none of that stuff.
I think this leads to a big sour point for the entire community, since only the top 5% do the hard push methods(assumption) on which the nerfs are aimed/based around.

they should really tone down the effect sextants have on xp/hour and continue to optimize relative xp/hour ratio's between maps themselves, making atlas tuning less relevant as a balance factor/concern for xp pushing.

hammer => nail [x]

as a casual player i'm just stunned what others pull off with their seemingly unlimited time investment.

ggg's stance of making every aspect of the game tradeable plus having a huge variety of options to maximise one's gains is the total difference to "diminishing returns" which normally balances the progress of other game's communities.

edit: an explanation from the boss, dr supposedly starts at level 90, did he really miss the guys having 6+ level 100 chars last league? i can't believe it.

"

vio wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

then there is the discrepancy between people that shape the atlas purely for XP gains/hour and sextant abuses vs people playing regularly doing none of that stuff.
I think this leads to a big sour point for the entire community, since only the top 5% do the hard push methods(assumption) on which the nerfs are aimed/based around.

they should really tone down the effect sextants have on xp/hour and continue to optimize relative xp/hour ratio's between maps themselves, making atlas tuning less relevant as a balance factor/concern for xp pushing.

hammer => nail [x]

as a casual player i'm just stunned what others pull off with their seemingly unlimited time investment.

ggg's stance of making every aspect of the game tradeable plus having a huge variety of options to maximise one's gains is the total difference to "diminishing returns" which normally balances the progress of other game's communities.

edit: an explanation from the boss, dr supposedly starts at level 90, did he really miss the guys having 6+ level 100 chars last league? i can't believe it.

Heh, GGG should actually "balance" extraordinary gains with obvious drawbacks, so if you roll an "increased density of packs" it should also have "spicy" drawbacks like "more monster HP and/or %increased damage", if you roll a Nemesis mod, and you are using a sextant for benefits, a drawback could be "all rare/% of rare monsters have Volatile mod" and so on.

You should always be rewarded fairly for increasing the danger and scaling the difficulty, but everything having a huge chance to rip you to shreds, should also have an addition EXP/loot incentive...

And sextants should add more variety, not your usual "moar, moar, moar"...

Normal sextants versus yellow versus red should also feel a lot more different also regarding their option variety, and they should always be tuned towards a great danger/reward ratio, so you're actively "choosing" why to use them...

PS: The reworked density feels like the last slap to the face of those that tried to level towards 100 without abusing anything, and will further even more the chimeric 100 target.

@#*^ that. I want danger in this game to feel rewarding, hopefully before 4.0/5.0 hit. And a substantial improvement to single target namelocking melee skills is also long overdue...