3.0 Fundamental flaws haven't changed

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DekarB wrote:

Your perception appears to be as faulty as your comprehension of language. Language was removed from my posts because they used swear words and most likely the specific posts were reported by an angry child as other posts with equivalent language remains untouched.

Swear words however are not intrinsically negative or positive therefore it doesn't necessarily mean what was removed was hostile. As well there are studies that show intelligent people often swear...example: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/27/swear-words-intelligence_n_12213206.html

[Removed by Support]

I do find comfort you finally succumbed to the fact my OP was on the side of the people and a good thing to discuss. I'm glad that when I dumbed it down a 4 year old's comprehension level of "red or blue button" you managed to press the right colour. My whole OP can not of course be boiled down to a simple yes or no [Removed by Support]

Your problem and why your OP will never be taken seriously is the fact that you refuse to comprehend and accept other peoples opinions if they even slightly differ from yours. It's sad and you will never be taken seriously because solving a problem requires compromise and you are unable to do that.

Furthermore you resort to belittling people you have no clue about and do not know personally treating them like trash. That is not a civilized way to get your point across and people will end up simply mocking and ignoring you and any arguments you bring.

Yes you created a few waves but people see right trough your fancy words and will see the insults.

That is the reason I will report every single reply you make where you insult people. You are not the only one who understands semantics and has a good comprehension of the English language and I am certain moderators will as well.

All in all this thread should be locked as you are a very unreasonable person and from what we understand don't care to play this game.

STOP ENJOYING THINGS REEE >O

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Bone2flesh wrote:

All in all this thread should be locked as you are a very unreasonable person and from what we understand don't care to play this game.

I'm actually surprised by the fact that this hasn't happened yet.

Even OP might probably use less strong words for the sake of good discussion flow, I must agree on his points. There is not a single reason for 6L chance to remain this high, as it was a carrot on a stick long time ago when game was lacking content and many other things so players needed something to keep them playing.

Is it better for the game if common players need whole league to collect enough fuses to 6 link something, or is better to let them roll at least 2-3 builds during the league?

I always stuggle with my first 6l in league, and it is a painfull process which I never liked.
If we count Vorici daily deal + usual 6s and fus drops - it takes too long to actually collect 1200 fuses for unoficial 6l mid chance.

Also, argument that 5l is enough in current game is just laughable, and I suspect that argument can be used only by people still doing tier 4-5 maps or something like that.

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G0rr wrote:

Also, argument that 5l is enough in current game is just laughable, and I suspect that argument can be used only by people still doing tier 4-5 maps or something like that.

The amount of items/builds not good enough for you is inversely proportionate to the narrowness of your objective.

Put another way, if your only goal is to one-shot every shaper phase, and that's the only thing that's 'fun' to you, then naturally you would also say 5 links suck and most builds in the game aren't 'viable'.

Not saying that's you, just illustrating why two people's opinions often differ on this subject. They want different things out of the game, and therefore see items and skills differently.

I never struggle with my first 6L of the league. I play a lot the first weekend, and usually use that currency to get a white 6L. I then use my time on that character to fuse up something unique in the chest or weapon slot. I understand that's not viable for everyone, but just speaking for this league, 6L seem pretty affordable. Do a couple days worth of chaos recipes and you're there.

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G0rr wrote:

Even OP might probably use less strong words for the sake of good discussion flow, I must agree on his points. There is not a single reason for 6L chance to remain this high, as it was a carrot on a stick long time ago when game was lacking content and many other things so players needed something to keep them playing.

Is it better for the game if common players need whole league to collect enough fuses to 6 link something, or is better to let them roll at least 2-3 builds during the league?

I always stuggle with my first 6l in league, and it is a painfull process which I never liked.
If we count Vorici daily deal + usual 6s and fus drops - it takes too long to actually collect 1200 fuses for unoficial 6l mid chance.

Also, argument that 5l is enough in current game is just laughable, and I suspect that argument can be used only by people still doing tier 4-5 maps or something like that.

Check my character and build for this league:

- T15 Colosseum 8 mod done with a 5L. Yes 6L would make it easier BUT I can safely do high red tiers with no 6L. You do not need it if you build well.

- Completed Uber lab easily as well with my 5L.

I also play like a retard and don't care for deaths. I have over 80+ now. Whatever.

I could BUY a 6L belly...but I insist on linking my own. Will probably cost me more but I am a proud bastard.


I have a full time job and a girlfriend so I do not play non stop in case the "OMG you play like a no lifer".

Just because you and a few other people don't like it that it's lengthy and relatively difficult to get a 6L does not mean it should be. It literally represents the epitome of your build with all 5 supports. It should be one of the last stepping stones of your build creation or it should be a trade off for stats and you get a Tabula.

Also how hard is it really to get a 6L? Most meta (life) chests can be replaced with rares: Celestial Justicar cards are easily farmed or bought for only 23-24 c each now. 130 chaos for a 6 L astral plate ilvl 80 is easy and cheap. Still to expensive for you? Chains that Bind is 3-4 chaos each: 44 C for a 6 link.

Anyone that complains that 6L is 100% mandatory for end game or that actually getting one is difficult simply don't know how to build (hell even copy a build) or where to get a cheap fast one.

I hope this helps your experience. Good luck to you!

On your points

1. Manipulated market. I do agree there are problems with trading, RMT, scammers and bots. However,I've played enough online games to know your arguments apply to every other at least moderately successful title, so logically it would apply to POE too along with all the associated problems. Not a flaw of the game per se, more a consequence of human greed feeding off human competitiveness.

2. 6-links. It is a rare attribute of an item. Items have other attributes from a pool too, some even more rare. When you consider all the attributes together you can decide if you have a good item or need to mod it. Modifying the sockets and links is much easier than modifying the item stats to get good attributes and rolls, because links are an isolated attribute whereas prefix/suffixes aren't without additional master crafting. Your argument that links should be easier to get doesn't hold water when you think about it this way. After all, every build needs life/es and resistances, why not make it easier to get maximum rolls on all those too. The system produces items of varying 'desirability' to force the player to make cost benefit choices. Otherwise, just remove randomness altogether and make everything a unique item with fixed stats and sockets, and hence fixed prices. Having a 6 link is like having a high life roll, desirable but difficult to attain, and you may have to settle for less, or pay someone else for it, as it should be. Traders exploiting this is inevitable, as any game economy is based on item desirability. Can't really call this a flaw in the game, it's merely a (well designed in my opinion) game system. Games without links and sockets have the same issues based on what makes items desirable in those games, including content being unattainable to those who aren't lucky or skillful enough to get the drops.

Summary: Agree on the market issues, but this is a problem with all online games, but this won't ever be better as the bad guys are clever and the customers feel for some reason that they need to compete. Don't agree on the 6 links, it's just an item attribute with a range of values like any other, and not always the most important. Look for budget end-game builds on the forums to prove this point, a lot of them give socket configurations for 4, 5 or 6 links. Neither point justifies a 6/10 in my opinion, but as you say 6 is above average and these seem more important to you than me, so fair enough.

*Bonus*: Your debating style.

Main point of contention is your citing of 'straw man' arguments. If you're familiar with straw man then you should also surely know about ad hominem, which you have indulged in, liberally, on every post you've made in this thread. Whether your comments about fanbo(y|i)s, reading ability or intelligence are true or not, you immediately sacrificed
any logical high ground once you employed these arguments.

Regarding reading comprehension and documented writing to remove 'guessing'. I noticed in your debate with Mikrotherion he/she said 'Once you're in Acts 9-10, 6S will start dropping'. You said in reply 'Wrong - huge assumption "once you're in act 9-10 6L will start dropping"...ahh no'. You misquoted the original 6S and changed it to 6L, which changes the argument entirely when you consider the relative frequency of a 6S drop vs a 6L one. The point was that 6S drop enough to fund an eventual 6L, but you seem to have misunderstood and misquoted. A small point yes, but worth mentioning to someone who emphasises reading ability, quoting, evidence and intelligence. Everyone makes mistakes and has bias, maybe you do too?

Regarding cars with redundant mirrors.

You said, again to Mikrotherion:

"A Car that has redundant mirrors, if the redundant mirror is fundamentally flawed it does not mean the entire car is fundamentally flawed as it functions perfectly fine as the only thing broken was redundant. See how being specific matters?".

Changing 'car' to 'POE' and 'redundant mirror' to scripts/bots/marketmanipulation gives,

A POE that has scripts/bots/marketmanipulation, if the scripts/bots/marketmanipulation is fundamentally flawed it does not mean the entire POE is fundamentally flawed as it functions perfectly fine as the only thing broken was redundant. See how being specific matters?

So what you actually said here was POE functions perfectly fine despite scripts/bots/marketmanipulation because the broken part (scripts/bots/marketmanipulation) is redundant, which is kind of self-suicide on your whole argument as the thing you're complaining about (scripts/bots/marketmanipulation) is, in your own words, redundant. Of course I get your point (but disagree with you on the use of fundamentally throughout your thread title and posts), but if you're going to insult and patronise people (on their ability to argue no less) while making such comparisons to your original argument, you should at least make sure they're correct and consistent.

Some of you just prove my point - there is not a single reason for 6l to be that hard to get by linking yourself.

I need to link exact uniq chest and not use celestial card or white 6l lol.

I have spent 200 fuses not even getting 5l, and while I am more then able to get few hundred fuses to try again, this bad RNG combined with pale league and non existant challenge rewards made me just stop playing.

Also, nobody answered if it would be better or worse for the game if 6l becomes easier obtainable for MAJORITY of people by linking yourself.

Btw I am using 4L and I am able to clear T15 with easy, but I am still saying that 6l is ridiculously overtuned having bigger picture in mind and not only talking for myself.

It looks people here are not aware how many players are actually visiting this forum and how many players are already doing t15 maps. You would be surprised where is majority at this moment.

You say there is not a single reason for 6l to be that hard to get by linking yourself. Look at my last post on point 2. It is an item attribute, better than a 5l in the same way a top life roll is better than the next best. If everyone can get it easily then 4 and 5 link become redundant. Relative power level is needed to have both a functioning economy never mind a functioning game. More powerful things need to be more difficult to attain. If not there is only one level (6 link). Every item becomes equivalent once you start down this road, "why isn't it easy to get top life and resists". You're kind of missing the whole point of the game's systems really. Can you provide a single reason for it not to be as difficult, other than you want it?

"I have spent 200 fuses not even getting 5l, and while I am more then able to get few hundred fuses to try again, this bad RNG combined with pale league and non existant challenge rewards made me just stop playing."

No such thing as bad RNG, it is just RNG meaning you can be unlucky. It didn't go your way and you're salty, thus whole game broke.

Completely agree on the pale league and non-existant challenge rewards though, but I'm still playing because I fundamentally enjoy the game.

I am never salty for more than 10 minutes when things like that happen.

But many leagues before I had cases where people I am playing with stop playing because of this nonsense mechanic. Especially with all those 6L cards available, there is not a single reason why self linking should be that hard.

I would rather see people playing 3-4 chars over league length and not collecting fuses whole 3 months for that one chest.
That way there will be maybe more then 100 people playing last month in league duration.

Btw, capping resistances is laughable easy already.