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What if I wanted to play a niche build or "a build of my own" and wanted a specific enchantment on it and there is no market for it? I can name you one right now ... I wanted a hrimnor's resolve helmet with % damage for flameblast but POE trade does not have it and there is no one with that enchantment on trade chat.
Will trading helps? Will the 0.26 % chance to get desired helmet enchantment rule helps me?
some builds you have to work harder for, especially if it's not viable without the enchantment.
Actually its not a question of whether the build is not viable or not, its a question of whether there is a supply of the item that you wanted to buy when everything thing else that you have tried obtaining it has failed.
And the 0.26% to get the desired helmet enchantment is the problem here. It's an unrealistic percentage, not even 1%.
Last edited by YoursTruly86 on Jun 17, 2017, 7:36:28 AM
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Posted byYoursTruly86on Jun 17, 2017, 7:32:14 AM
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why I hate the lab....
very time consuming and tedious
Ignore many of your character building decisions (fuck you traps)
Ascendancy is locked behind it
its no fun for people who are a little bit slower like myself
im sure there are more reasons but its to early for more ranting lol
I dont see any any key!
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Posted byk1rageon Jun 17, 2017, 7:40:09 AM
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My reasons for hating the labs are as follows:
1) There's a disconnect between the Lab and Izaro. Izaro is magnitudes more difficult to overcome than the rest of the lab (Heck, I'd put him on a higher tier than Malachai with maybe Mercachai being a bit worse than Mercaro... Well, depending on what stupid mechanics Izaro's saddled with for the day)
Like, it means that a large portion of the lab is worthless when you're running through it. It's like if you had to run through Normal Coast like 15 times before you could do a Map boss.
The flip side is that if you go in specifically for the Lab and not Izaro/Ascendancies/Enchants, then you get fucked by Izaro in his first fight, let alone passing through his second fight to fully explore the place.
2) It honestly doesn't feel like a "Labyrinth". Heck, Warhouse District feels more like a Labyrinth, given how similar everything looks and how many different places the transition to Marketplace can be...
Lab is designed to be straight forward. Every area has like 1-2 exits (Sometimes a 3rd for a Key). It's all rather mundane.
Why is this the case? Well, simply because it's mandatory content. Core game mechanics of Ascendancy points are gated behind it, as such, you have to make it not as abhorrent to run through on every character you make.
3) You have to do it SO MANY FUCKING TIMES.
4 times per character. Not including the Trials which again, are just lame (Even when I was brand new, they were lame... Then half the traps I only saw within Lab itself anyway...)
The same content, so much... It again comes back to "If you had to run Coast 15 times" due to having to run this mostly worthless content so much, just to build your character properly.
As I've said before, I like the IDEA of Lab. The execution is poor though, its need to be core gameplay is making it not be able to be enjoyable content.
Meaning, if Ascendancies were divorced from the Lab, so people didn't HAVE to run it, it could be changed into an actual huge sprawling Labyrinth. Where you actually have to check the maps inside to figure out where you're going. Where exploring is a worthwhile thing to do. Where it could actually be a viable end-game content alongside Maps (Imagine if there was an Atlas style Labyrinth? So you could choose to work through Maps to try and take out the Guardians and Shaper, or you could instead work on the Labyrinth, dealing with traps and the like along the way to deal with a variety of other end-game bosses)
But no... Have to lock Ascendancies behind it, so you have to gut every potentially interesting part of it so people don't vomit blood at the thought of having to go through it 4 times on every character...
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Posted byTarilleon Jun 17, 2017, 7:48:16 AM
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Let me start off by writing down my reasons for hating it.
Firstly, not everyone made their first character specifically tailored for doing labs at great efficiency such as non-tanking builds and thus, it would be safe to say that the traps in the labs are very deadly, especially for them. Getting caught in the grinders for more than 2 seconds would be instant death for them.
This suggest that the success rate of completing the labs is not always 100% since any small mistake equates to instant death and instant exp loss.
Secondly, getting the lab enchantments that you wanted for your build is a real torture.
According to POE Wiki,
Uber labs boots enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs gloves enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs helmets enchantment = 388 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 0.26 %
This suggests a serious amount of unrealistic grinding is required, especially for the helmet enchantments.
Thirdly, sudden disconnects (DC). Not sure if anyone experienced this before, but I have experienced sudden DC far more in labs than in game but only once in a while.
Fourthly, labs difficulty does not scales with normal/cruel/merciless/uber difficulty.
For eg, a normal mode labs might sometimes be more difficult and lengthy than in merciless mode labs.
This may not seemed to be a issue with veteran lab players but it does creates lots of negative impact for new players. Labs difficulty should be progressive so that they can learn how to navigate more efficiently in labs so as to train them for higher tier labs.
Fifthly, locating all the trials of ascendancy in maps to gain access to uber labs is a serious torture. If you're a solo guy, then good luck to you for finding it all by yourself.
And finally if you were to sum all the points above and combine it, you get a mega total frustrating and disappointing playing experience.
And if good skills don't kill you in labs, sudden DC will kill you and demand for a total restart without your consent.
poe is awesome, the lab is torture. I agree with what you say. The high amount of grinding boring and non-arpg content is awful. Just look at the low % chance to get the right enchantment for your builds speaks for itself. I have talked about the horrible lab experience so many times already so i leave it like this for now. Still ggg dont listen and we still need to play this shit in 3.0. I am very dissaponted .
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Posted byDevonoron Jun 17, 2017, 7:55:46 AM
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My reasons for hating the labs are as follows:
1) There's a disconnect between the Lab and Izaro. Izaro is magnitudes more difficult to overcome than the rest of the lab (Heck, I'd put him on a higher tier than Malachai with maybe Mercachai being a bit worse than Mercaro... Well, depending on what stupid mechanics Izaro's saddled with for the day)
Like, it means that a large portion of the lab is worthless when you're running through it. It's like if you had to run through Normal Coast like 15 times before you could do a Map boss.
The flip side is that if you go in specifically for the Lab and not Izaro/Ascendancies/Enchants, then you get fucked by Izaro in his first fight, let alone passing through his second fight to fully explore the place.
2) It honestly doesn't feel like a "Labyrinth". Heck, Warhouse District feels more like a Labyrinth, given how similar everything looks and how many different places the transition to Marketplace can be...
Lab is designed to be straight forward. Every area has like 1-2 exits (Sometimes a 3rd for a Key). It's all rather mundane.
Why is this the case? Well, simply because it's mandatory content. Core game mechanics of Ascendancy points are gated behind it, as such, you have to make it not as abhorrent to run through on every character you make.
3) You have to do it SO MANY FUCKING TIMES.
4 times per character. Not including the Trials which again, are just lame (Even when I was brand new, they were lame... Then half the traps I only saw within Lab itself anyway...)
The same content, so much... It again comes back to "If you had to run Coast 15 times" due to having to run this mostly worthless content so much, just to build your character properly.
As I've said before, I like the IDEA of Lab. The execution is poor though, its need to be core gameplay is making it not be able to be enjoyable content.
Meaning, if Ascendancies were divorced from the Lab, so people didn't HAVE to run it, it could be changed into an actual huge sprawling Labyrinth. Where you actually have to check the maps inside to figure out where you're going. Where exploring is a worthwhile thing to do. Where it could actually be a viable end-game content alongside Maps (Imagine if there was an Atlas style Labyrinth? So you could choose to work through Maps to try and take out the Guardians and Shaper, or you could instead work on the Labyrinth, dealing with traps and the like along the way to deal with a variety of other end-game bosses)
But no... Have to lock Ascendancies behind it, so you have to gut every potentially interesting part of it so people don't vomit blood at the thought of having to go through it 4 times on every character...
I myself plays a totem spell caster and cannot tank traps. Therefore, I have to play carefully. Killing uber izaro is not a problem for me since I have decoy totems and high dps. Problem with labs is the traps and DC. I remembered i was at the last waiting room before uber izaro and just when I tried to deposit some stuff into the stash, I DC-ed. I could have killed uber izaro easily but DC killed me instead. It was damn frustrating to DC just before the last room whereby I could have easily win the fight but when i think again about the % chance possibility to get the enchantment, i decide to just it go because the 6.67% and 0.26% % is just a joke anyways.
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Posted byYoursTruly86on Jun 17, 2017, 7:57:11 AM
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Let me start off by writing down my reasons for hating it.
Firstly, not everyone made their first character specifically tailored for doing labs at great efficiency such as non-tanking builds and thus, it would be safe to say that the traps in the labs are very deadly, especially for them. Getting caught in the grinders for more than 2 seconds would be instant death for them.
This suggest that the success rate of completing the labs is not always 100% since any small mistake equates to instant death and instant exp loss.
Secondly, getting the lab enchantments that you wanted for your build is a real torture.
According to POE Wiki,
Uber labs boots enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs gloves enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs helmets enchantment = 388 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 0.26 %
This suggests a serious amount of unrealistic grinding is required, especially for the helmet enchantments.
Thirdly, sudden disconnects (DC). Not sure if anyone experienced this before, but I have experienced sudden DC far more in labs than in game but only once in a while.
Fourthly, labs difficulty does not scales with normal/cruel/merciless/uber difficulty.
For eg, a normal mode labs might sometimes be more difficult and lengthy than in merciless mode labs.
This may not seemed to be a issue with veteran lab players but it does creates lots of negative impact for new players. Labs difficulty should be progressive so that they can learn how to navigate more efficiently in labs so as to train them for higher tier labs.
Fifthly, locating all the trials of ascendancy in maps to gain access to uber labs is a serious torture. If you're a solo guy, then good luck to you for finding it all by yourself.
And finally if you were to sum all the points above and combine it, you get a mega total frustrating and disappointing playing experience.
And if good skills don't kill you in labs, sudden DC will kill you and demand for a total restart without your consent.
poe is awesome, the lab is torture. I agree with what you say. The high amount of grinding boring and non-arpg content is awful. Just look at the low % chance to get the right enchantment for your builds speaks for itself. I have talked about the horrible lab experience so many times already so i leave it like this for now. Still ggg dont listen and we still need to play this shit in 3.0. I am very dissaponted .
Yep bro, I gave up for my boots enchantment. But have some faith. GGG is making favorable changes to labs gaming experience so they might listen to us in the future if these kind of thread keeps re-surfacing.
But, I have a tip for you. Try to use other character to do the labs for the enchantments that your character do not need. For example, a juggernaut using the lab enchantment on a DEX-based helmet or a INT helmet such as rat's nest. I managed to get a tornado shot enchant on rat's nest and warchief totem enchantment for totem abyssus just by enchanting on a helmet that i do not used. That was in std tho and i play archer/tank/totems mostly. It would be logical to assume it works that way since GGG encourages trading and trading would not have occur if people do not sell stuff that they do not need. That's just my personal opinion though.
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Posted byYoursTruly86on Jun 17, 2017, 8:07:22 AM
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It's just so fucking annoying to do four times it on every character.
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Posted bypoepoe091on Jun 17, 2017, 8:32:45 AM
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https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1912655
not meaning to hijack, but i made a poll about the lab in feedback
The Hyperbomber for 2.6: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1879383
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Posted bySaltygameson Jun 17, 2017, 8:38:44 AM
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So not only not heading warning but actively seeking out bias. Nice...
"It's all clearer now
And I hear her now
And I'm nearer to
The Salvation Code" Last edited by PleiadesBlackstar on Jun 17, 2017, 8:39:55 AM
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Posted byPleiadesBlackstaron Jun 17, 2017, 8:39:42 AM
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I like to reroll a lot.
Now I gotta run that shithole lab 4 TIMES every time.
It kills my fun. Its not Diablolike (the effing reason i started supporting this game" CHRIS! YOU MAKE ME MAD! WHY WON'T YOU PUT THE GAME BACK TO A D2 CLONE INSTEAD OFF ADDING THIS GARBAGE!
XD
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Posted bySkellimanceron Jun 17, 2017, 8:54:01 AM
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