Post your reason why you hate doing labs.

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

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YoursTruly86 wrote:

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

Like already stated. It's meant to be challenging content. You can make builds that cheese it but they generally don't do splendidly outside of lab then.

Just like you I do get irked when a specific build has a hell of a time with traps but you know what? I accept that the build isn't meant to farm the lab and suddenly buying a lab enchant helm seems like a reasonable and non rage inducing idea :).

I've already addressed the reasons why the lab design is bad, mainly for those with bad internet connections, but in general the lab is absolutely fine. Nobody can convince me that running the end game maps thousands of times is fine but having to run the lab 4 times per character lifespan at maximum if so desired is too tedious just because it has a different flavor than other game areas just because you have to work your way around traps.

Problem is that poe trade or in game market has it whenever i am online.

Assuming you meant to say never has it when you are online. I find that statement to be 50/50 though. I play mostly at night on my days off since I work night shift in central us time zone recently and I have found no real difference in access to stuff I need to buy. Sometimes you may pay a premium for having less available choices, but that is usually referring to currency trades if anything. Items seem to be fairly priced outside of more big ticket items.

However I do feel like lab enchant helms might be a bit of a different story, especially if you are trying to find a non Meta enchant that may very well be impossible to find because nobody ever bothers to list it.

But to add since I forgot to in the earlier post, I also would argue that helm enchant are a super end game thing to strive for anyway so small chances of receiving the one you want is kind of justified in my book. I've literally only ever used like 2 helm enchant combo on any character that I can remember and that's only because I happened to get ancestral warchief damage on my ancestral warchief's bringer of rain first try. Second was because I just went ahead and bought a temporal chains enchant helm on a Ed character because it was affordable and could have lived without it. So out of 2 of my many characters that have done tier 15 and 16 maps, there doesn't even feel like a strong need to have enchants unless you plan to go ham on farming the shaper and what not without a super end game meta es leech build.

Sorry man, that item simply isn't available on poe trade ( i filtered both online ond offline sellers) as well as on trade chat when I am online.

If it's not available for sale on poe trade entirely, high possibility there is no market for it even on trade chat.

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Wow.. How relevant your comments is against the topic of discussion !!

Yes, you are right, it is very relevant, an opinion about The Lord's Labyrinth in a thread asking for opinions about The Lord's Labyrinth

In any case if you value my opinion as much as you seem to, what with your quoted response and all, you'll have to wait unfortunately, I'm too lazy to wade through all the old complaints in this thread at the moment

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adghar wrote:

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Wow.. How relevant your comments is against the topic of discussion !!

Yes, you are right, it is very relevant, an opinion about The Lord's Labyrinth in a thread asking for opinions about The Lord's Labyrinth

In any case if you value my opinion as much as you seem to, what with your quoted response and all, you'll have to wait unfortunately, I'm too lazy to wade through all the old complaints in this thread at the moment

Sorry you got it wrong, it's a thread asking asking for opinions on why people hate labs, so don't try to change the subject to your advantage. In case you forgot to read the title of the thread, its called , "Post your reason why you hate doing labs." In case you are wondering, There is sarcasm in my first reply to you.

Well, there is too many hypocrites in this forum as well as in real life but its easier to detect one when you have their previous past posting records, especially recent ones. There is also forum trolls who likes to provoke people while appearing "helpful" at the same time. Typically, their replies consists of some relevant replies with hidden sarcastic remarks with the intention to provoke.

In case you missed it intentionally by quoting my phrase while at the same time omitting the links to it, here it is


https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1906262/page/2

I'm of two minds when it comes to the labs.

The first is, I like the idea of them. I like them in concept. Needing to dodge deadly traps, using trash mobs to replenish your potions. Navigating a pseudo maze with secrets and rewards for those that explore a bit. I find Izaru's mechanic to be really interesting. A really well done showing of how risk vs reward could and should be.

However, and this is the other side of things for me. As good as all of this sounds on paper, and in concept. It fails in practice. Starting with the Trials themselves. I understand that they're there to teach you what to expect in the lab itself. So here's my question. Why do we have to do the trials in Cruel and Merciless? The traps aren't any different, they honestly don't even feel like they do more damage on higher difficulties. There's no new spins on how they work. So why make us do them all over again, if we've already completed it once before?

Someone else brought this up, but I feel it needs repeating. ARPG's in general do not do precision movement well. It's easy to start attacking something when you need to move. To click on something to interact with it, and see your character not move at all. Or if you do move, you stutter, start and stop movement. Or worse, the pathfinding freaks out and takes you in a stupid directly in the complete opposite direction. POE is not excluded from these issues. Labs compound these issues because you are required to do precise moves. Yes, I know you can bind a "move only" action, problem is not all builds have room for this. Trying to switch weapons usually results in lost buffs and/or summons. Which you then have to stop what you're doing and reapply......everytime you need to weapon swap to get past a particular trap set up.

Labs feel too long to utilize the one and done mechanic. Either make them shorter and only give us 1 attempt per run, or make them long and implement some sort of checkpoint system. Probably after each Izaru phase. If you're worried about people trying to brute force it by simply dying over and over again, you can put in a system to where if a player dies more than once in the entire run, the chests at the end will be permanently locked. One by one.

The only difficulty curve involved with lsbs comes down to enemy health and damage. That's it. Character progression is locked behind a level and gear check. Is your level high enough not to get wrecked by trash mobs? Check. Is your gear good enough to let you facetank/heal through all of Izaru's attacks because of how super aggressive he is? Check. I understand wanting to challenge players in the hunt for better loot and items. That should be a challenge. Locking basic character progression behind that same wall does not make for a fun playing experience.

Labs aren't optional. If you want to reach the full potential of a build, you NEED to do them. Which means it comes down to how long you need to put them off before you can attempt them. It's recommended you be a minimum of 10 levels above the lab you want to attempt. That doesn't seem like good design. I don't hate the labs, I'm just super disappointed in how they work because in the end, more often than not they're just an exercise in tedium.

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adghar wrote:

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Wow.. How relevant your comments is against the topic of discussion !!

Yes, you are right, it is very relevant, an opinion about The Lord's Labyrinth in a thread asking for opinions about The Lord's Labyrinth

In any case if you value my opinion as much as you seem to, what with your quoted response and all, you'll have to wait unfortunately, I'm too lazy to wade through all the old complaints in this thread at the moment

Well, the thread title actually is "Post your reason why you hate doing labs". If you don't hate doing the lab (which is absolutely fine, I don't hate the lab most of the time, either), you can of course come here and state that you have no reasons (as you did), but you should not be surprised that people might find that irrelevant.

I used to hate to do the lab when I played on my old laptop - not because of the lab per se, but because it was frustrating to get to the last Izaro stage and die not because of the fight itself but because of 0 fps for a few seconds.

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YoursTruly86 wrote:

Let me start off by writing down my reasons for hating it.

Firstly, not everyone made their first character specifically tailored for doing labs at great efficiency such as non-tanking builds and thus, it would be safe to say that the traps in the labs are very deadly, especially for them. Getting caught in the grinders for more than 2 seconds would be instant death for them.

This suggest that the success rate of completing the labs is not always 100% since any small mistake equates to instant death and instant exp loss.


Secondly, getting the lab enchantments that you wanted for your build is a real torture.

According to POE Wiki,

Uber labs boots enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs gloves enchantment = 15 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 6.67%
Uber labs helmets enchantment = 388 types > total chance to get desired enchantment = 0.26 %

This suggests a serious amount of unrealistic grinding is required, especially for the helmet enchantments.

Thirdly, sudden disconnects (DC). Not sure if anyone experienced this before, but I have experienced sudden DC far more in labs than in game but only once in a while.

Fourthly, labs difficulty does not scales with normal/cruel/merciless/uber difficulty.
For eg, a normal mode labs might sometimes be more difficult and lengthy than in merciless mode labs.
This may not seemed to be a issue with veteran lab players but it does creates lots of negative impact for new players. Labs difficulty should be progressive so that they can learn how to navigate more efficiently in labs so as to train them for higher tier labs.

Fifthly, locating all the trials of ascendancy in maps to gain access to uber labs is a serious torture. If you're a solo guy, then good luck to you for finding it all by yourself.


And finally if you were to sum all the points above and combine it, you get a mega total frustrating and disappointing playing experience.

And if good skills don't kill you in labs, sudden DC will kill you and demand for a total restart without your consent.

I don't hate lab, don't have reasons to hate it.

Why I hate the Lab ? Well, beside the facts, that Lab is simple boring and unnecessary, it's the length and lack of waypoints for me. I tried yesterday to complete merc. Lab with my lvl 87 completely overgeared Char, and i couldn't beat the Loadscreen, because I was unable to load the new room, even PC restart was necessary ! I never fight the mobs, I'm just running through like a idiot, to kill Izaru in 5 sec. because I am afraid of disconnects.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

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adghar wrote:

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Wow.. How relevant your comments is against the topic of discussion !!

Yes, you are right, it is very relevant, an opinion about The Lord's Labyrinth in a thread asking for opinions about The Lord's Labyrinth

In any case if you value my opinion as much as you seem to, what with your quoted response and all, you'll have to wait unfortunately, I'm too lazy to wade through all the old complaints in this thread at the moment

Well, the thread title actually is "Post your reason why you hate doing labs". If you don't hate doing the lab (which is absolutely fine, I don't hate the lab most of the time, either), you can of course come here and state that you have no reasons (as you did), but you should not be surprised that people might find that irrelevant.

I used to hate to do the lab when I played on my old laptop - not because of the lab per se, but because it was frustrating to get to the last Izaro stage and die not because of the fight itself but because of 0 fps for a few seconds.

Oh you are back from this thread?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1911005/page/7/#p14558225

Feeling humiliated and switching to different thread to attack the other person in whichever thread he makes in a clean environment, in an attempt to boost your winning chances? LOL.

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YoursTruly86 wrote:

very nice input here ; )

In fact, I even have some suggestions on how to improve lab (like anyone gives a sh*t, I know)

Copied from another lab thread.

I believe there are solutions that would make lab much better. Despite how it may appear based on my previous statements, I like the IDEA of lab, but not the execution, at least in a game like poe. There were several good suggestions from other players in different threads, so I will try to summarize those that, in my opinion, would make the most sense.

1) Tone down the iron-man mode. Instead of forcing people to start all over, allow the option to start from the last izaro fight that you did. You died during izaro fight 2? You get to spawn right after the first fight, with all locations re-setting except for treasuries and mysterious shrines. If you die, you lose one total treasure key (or all of them). If you don't have any more possible treasure keys to lose, you lose your enchant. After that, no further penalty (or extra exp loss). Obviously this is subject to variations, but the base idea is to still punish the player, yet allow a less frustrating experience for people who simply want to ascend. It won't affect proper lab runners, since dying would not be an option for them anyway. It also won't affect speed runners and hc players for obvious reasons.

2) Change traps from direct damage to combat altering stations. What I mean is a sort of mix between totems and current uber lab pillars, but invincible, with buff/debuff effects unique to lab. For example you may have a pillar that raises monster speed and attack damage to absolutely crazy levels (way more than onslaught or map modifiers), or a pillar that gives extra projectiles and inc area of effect to monsters. If you combine it with also significantly increasing danger of monsters in the lab (seriously, right now they are a joke even in uber), you get potentially challenging situations. You won't die to stupid static boring traps, but to crazily altered monsters. You can even keep traps like ground spikes, but instead of dealing massive damage, they may instead give you a long debuff (for example, 100% inc physical damage taken) that cannot be removed by anti-curse flask. You can choose to wait it out, or risk it and proceed. I believe there are many potential possibilities, but I hope you get the idea.

3) In other sections, you can replace long trap parts with proper puzzles, something similar to the ones that are located near treasuries sometimes. You can even incorporate some cryptic poems that you would have to read to figure out how to solve it. Granted, people would with time memorize the solutions, but it would be another skill that proper lab runners would possess compared to regulars (instead of just stacking movement speed and burst damage very skillfuly).

Even izaro stage 3 would benefit from it. Without high damage traps, you will suddenly receive actual room to move around, however with a risk of running into a nasty debuff that can possibly screw you over. Stepped into a spike trap? Well damn now you can't let izaro hit you at all, you have to avoid his attacks at all costs.

You can even have parts were by stepping on hidden plates, you would spawn enemies with certain specific abilities, or bands of nemesis monsters (teleporting volatiles lol). There are so many possibilities, which I believe can make it more engaging, more in tune with general top down arpg gameplay, and potentially even more immersive.


Will it significantly change the lab for facetankers and speed runners? No, because facetankers would still facetank even super buffed monsters, while speed runners would yolo run, but will be forced to memorize puzzle solutions. But who cares, if it makes it more interesting for the majority of players, who are usually something in between?

I do believe that lab as a concept has great promise, but its current execution just depresses me.

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DS9 wrote:

Why I hate the Lab ? Well, beside the facts, that Lab is simple boring and unnecessary, it's the length and lack of waypoints for me. I tried yesterday to complete merc. Lab with my lvl 87 completely overgeared Char, and i couldn't beat the Loadscreen, because I was unable to load the new room, even PC restart was necessary ! I never fight the mobs, I'm just running through like a idiot, to kill Izaru in 5 sec. because I am afraid of disconnects.

I LOLED damn hard at your phrase ,"completely overgeared Char, and i couldn't beat the Loadscreen"

; )