Donald Trump and US politics

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Xavderion wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Trump is a global crook.

FTFY.

Depending on how far on the left you are, all businessmen are crooks.

Depending on willingness to produce tax returns, all presidents are potentially crooks.

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Xavderion wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Trump releasing his tax returns would mean that the media would cherry pick bad looking (not even actually bad, just bad looking) parts of it and spin stories around it for the next 8 years.

You do realize that every major party nominee since Gerald Ford has released their tax returns, right? This is in no small part because the public deserves to know about these things, and so that a president can't, say, have it held over their head in the future. It's called basic fucking accountability, and I'm astonished how unwilling people are to hold Trump accountable at even a basic level.

Trump is different from other presidents. Now I don't know about every single one but most presidents are politicians or lawyers or whatever. Trump is a global businessman.

Right. That makes transparency for his businesses and investments more important, not less, so that we don't have him conflicted in his decisionmaking between what's right for the country and what's right for his business interests. Of course, most other presidential candidates had investments. But they put those investments into blind trusts, to help guard against conflicts of interest and ensure that they couldn't know if their personal or business interests were effected by any given policy they were considering. Trump, again, won't do that. So he'll know if a policy decision will affect his holdings. But we might not, and we won't be able to tell if he made any given decision because that decision was right for the country, or because that decision was right for Trump.

Case in point: if Trump had put his assets in a blind trust, it never even would have come into consideration that he didn't own properties in any of the countries he stopped immigration from. It wouldn't have mattered - he no longer owns those assets, so it's a non-issue. This is not a minor point - I have no idea whether that played into Trump's decision to target those countries, and according to him, this is a major national security issue we should be worried about. Yes, there are other explanations, but there's really no reason this couldn't have played a role. There's no reason for or need for this uncertainty, except that Trump demands to break with his predecessors in ways that specifically open us up to this kind of uncertainty. Again, what the hell happened to the hard-nosed republicans insistent on holding Clinton accountable for every little thing? Why aren't you just as interested in holding Trump accountable for this?

Children gonna child.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Right. That makes transparency for his businesses and investments more important, not less, so that we don't have him conflicted in his decisionmaking between what's right for the country and what's right for his business interests. Of course, most other presidential candidates had investments. But they put those investments into blind trusts, to help guard against conflicts of interest and ensure that they couldn't know if their personal or business interests were effected by any given policy they were considering. Trump, again, won't do that. So he'll know if a policy decision will affect his holdings. But we might not, and we won't be able to tell if he made any given decision because that decision was right for the country, or because that decision was right for Trump.

The irony is that it wouldn't matter either way. He would always have plausible deniability and could claim that what's good for the country is coincidentally also good for him (which kinda makes sense if you think about it). And the MSM would always spin it as "crooked Trump wants to make more money" no matter what. And the whole blind trust thing is overrated. No matter who runs his hotels, he could still easily make policy which benefits him. It's not like he suddenly doesn't know what affects the hotel industry and what doesn't.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Case in point: if Trump had put his assets in a blind trust, it never even would have come into consideration that he didn't own properties in any of the countries he stopped immigration from. It wouldn't have mattered - he no longer owns those assets, so it's a non-issue. This is not a minor point - I have no idea whether that played into Trump's decision to target those countries, and according to him, this is a major national security issue we should be worried about. Yes, there are other explanations, but there's really no reason this couldn't have played a role. There's no reason for or need for this uncertainty, except that Trump demands to break with his predecessors in ways that specifically open us up to this kind of uncertainty. Again, what the hell happened to the hard-nosed republicans insistent on holding Clinton accountable for every little thing? Why aren't you just as interested in holding Trump accountable for this?

Most countries he banned are totally unstable. Who the fuck does business in Libya? Do you think his trustee would build a hotel in Somalia? Do you think Trump wouldn't somehow find out about it? Maybe now you get why I don't care much about his tax returns, it wouldn't change much at all. It would only deliver more ammo for the MSM to undermine his presidency with baseless claims. In addition to "muh Russia" we would get a lot of additional muhs.

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Xavderion wrote:

The irony is that it wouldn't matter either way. He would always have plausible deniability and could claim that what's good for the country is coincidentally also good for him (which kinda makes sense if you think about it). And the MSM would always spin it as "crooked Trump wants to make more money" no matter what. And the whole blind trust thing is overrated. No matter who runs his hotels, he could still easily make policy which benefits him. It's not like he suddenly doesn't know what affects the hotel industry and what doesn't.

Clearly, because no matter what, his supporters will always back him and his opponents will always distrust him, it's better we don't even know where Trump's potential conflicts of interest are. Personally, I'd think it would be better if the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA went ahead and put his assets in a blind trust so that we all didn't have to worry about such conflicts and could move forward assured that Trump was putting America first (rather than, say, wondering why the hell one of his trustees with no official position in government was sitting in on his meeting with the president of Japan). But hey, that's just me.

Also, I don't think you get what a blind trust is. If Trump were to put his assets in a blind trust, his assets would cease to be "the hotel industry". Rather, those assets would be sold off, and the trustee would purchase assets in equivalent value to the sold assets. That's the whole point of a blind trust - you don't know what your assets are, so you can't make policy to further those assets.

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Most countries he banned are totally unstable. Who the fuck does business in Libya? Do you think his trustee would build a hotel in Somalia? Do you think Trump wouldn't somehow find out about it? Maybe now you get why I don't care much about his tax returns, it wouldn't change much at all. It would only deliver more ammo for the MSM to undermine his presidency with baseless claims. In addition to "muh Russia" we would get a lot of additional muhs.

And if there's a big fat fucking nothingburger there, then great! Then the MSM has its little cry, sinks further into obscurity as everyone recognizes how unimportant it is, and we all move on. There was, is, and continues to be no reason why he shouldn't have released it... Unless there's something in there he doesn't want us to see.

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Xavderion wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Trump releasing his tax returns would mean that the media would cherry pick bad looking (not even actually bad, just bad looking) parts of it and spin stories around it for the next 8 years.

You do realize that every major party nominee since Gerald Ford has released their tax returns, right? This is in no small part because the public deserves to know about these things, and so that a president can't, say, have it held over their head in the future. It's called basic fucking accountability, and I'm astonished how unwilling people are to hold Trump accountable at even a basic level.

Trump is different from other presidents. Now I don't know about every single one but most presidents are politicians or lawyers or whatever. Trump is a global businessman.

A lot of businessman become politicians. *cough*

I am rather interested to see what Trumpism will do to America. And Reality TV is always fun. We need 8 years of Trump. Do it for Science!!! Do it for Reality TV!!!

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deathflower wrote:

I am rather interested to see what Trumpism will do to America. And Reality TV is always fun. We need 8 years of Trump. Do it for Science!!! Do it for Reality TV!!!

Sometimes I cover my dick with toilet paper and pretend it's a ghost.

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SarahAustin wrote:

Lol Bannon under investigation for voter fraud. This administration is gonna burn.

Very fake news. It's residency fraud. And since he didn't vote in Florida, nothing will come of it. Try again.