Donald Trump and US politics

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TheAnuhart wrote:

I guess it depends how you define failed businessman, good businessman, bad businessman. And was 'failed' actually thrown about? Bad, crooked, shady, yeah.

Does the amount of bankruptcies matter?
Does the legality matter?
Do the bailouts and gifts matter?
Do name and relations matter?

Only legality matters.

If the legal system allows to file bankruptcy to avoid paying debt, then it's the legal system fault, not the businessman's fault for using this "loophole". If the political & legal system allows bailouts & "gifts" (aka bribes), then it's totally ok to abuse these mechanics. Might not be moral or nice (as perceived by us insignificant mortals), but it's legally ok.

All these issues (bribes, offshore accounts, big companies not paying taxes..) have to be solved at the legal & political level. Regardles of how immoral or unethical these practices are, they are ok, as long as the legal system allows them. Fix the legal system first. We can talk all day about "shady & crooked" businesses, but if we don't have a legal basis to stand on then it's all for nothing.

Trump is being percieved and painted as an "evil billionare" (coming from the left mostly), but I don't think he is that much different from "good billionares", like Musk, Gates, Jobs... who are revered by the left. They are all in for the profits. It's just that we perceive space exploration as a more noble goal, than building boring hotels and golf courses.

We cant castigate Trump for being "shady", while at the same time revere Jobs who was using "slave" labour in china to build iPhones, lol. It's funny, because probably none of us here are buyers of Trump products / services, but at least some of you guys own overpriced iPhones made by chinese "slave" labour. ;)

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Yes, yes, Maddow and MSNBC are ridiculously democrat biased ... But if both not going public with these and going public with them would have recieved ridicule from you. That's an issue you have.

I'm only laughing because they've set the trap for themselves so nicely. These networks (from both sides, Dem & Rep) are all establishment propaganda tools, and deserve all the ridicule they can get. Journalists should go public with any info and with any dirt they have on politicians (but it has to be truth, not fake news partisan propaganda). Eg. I fully support Wikileaks, Assange, Snowden and everyone who exposes the rot inside the governments - any governments.

For the record: I only care about US foreign politics and the last 16 years of Demorats & Repubs were exactly the same in this regard: imperialistic, warmongering, catastrophic. Maybe Trump will turn out the same, but even if there is a slight chance that he won't (and there still is), I will prefer him over the usual Neocon/Neolib establishment.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Of course Trump released it (CLIENT FUCKING COPY), a classic Bannon. Just like the Ryan tape this week. But why did MSNBC air it if it played right into Trump's hands? Well I guess it was because fake news. Oh wait.

Cause they are stupid and rabid? Maybe they wanted some easy ratings, a short term heroin high. Dunno.

Maybe they tried to play on the the "socialist" violin: look here this evil top-hat wearing, monocle-in-the-champagne-falling, fucking orange-white male earning 150mio in a year. Hate him, because he's filthy rich!! Viva la revolucion, siempre!! :P

Whatever was their motive they've shot themselves in the foot. And it's so deliciously fun.

"You know you are desperate for ratings when you are willing to violate the law to push a story about two pages of tax returns from over a decade ago. Despite this substantial income figure and tax paid, it is totally illegal to steal and publish tax returns. The dishonest media can continue to make this part of their agenda, while the President will focus on his, which includes tax reform that will benefit all Americans."


Lol pwned

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morbo wrote:

Only legality matters.

That's a problematic outlook.

(Also, just so we're clear, the following statement is taking morbo completely out of context for humor value. The actual context of what he's talking about is something entirely different.)

Also, not even that: White House Slammed by Federal Ethics Chief for Not Disciplining Kellyanne Conway.

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"The White House's response makes clear that disciplinary action will not be taken," Shaub said in a separate letter addressed to Chaffetz and House Oversight Committee ranking member Elijah Cummings.

But Shaub expressed greater concern with the White House's "extraordinary assertion" that employees of the President's office are exempt from many ethics regulations. "The assertion is incorrect, and the letter cites no legal basis for it," Shaub wrote to Passantino."It is critical to the public's faith in the integrity of government that White House employees be held to the same standard of ethical accountability as other executive branch employees," he continued.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/09/ethics_office_asks_trump_again_to_punish_kellyanne_conway.html

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“Not taking disciplinary action against a senior official under such circumstances risks undermining the ethics program,” OGE Director Walter Shaub Jr. wrote to the White House of its decision to give Conway a pass.

Yeah, good luck with that, Shaub.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Also, not even that: White House Slammed by Federal Ethics Chief for Not Disciplining Kellyanne Conway.

That's the most shady business practice that you can come up with? Do you own an iPphone, by any chance? :P

Yes, only legality matters. We have all different morals & ethical opinions, so only what's written on the paper and is equal for all of us, can be used as a basis.

...

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SarahAustin wrote:

Lol, in what fantasy world do you live...

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SarahAustin wrote:

When Trump gets impeached/loses next election: "Boohoo, the liberals won MAGA plz!"

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morbo wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Also, not even that: White House Slammed by Federal Ethics Chief for Not Disciplining Kellyanne Conway.

That's the most shady business practice that you can come up with? Do you own an iPphone, by any chance? :P

Yes, only legality matters. We have all different morals & ethical opinions, so only what's written on the paper and is equal for all of us, can be used as a basis.

So releasing full tax returns would either uncover the deep issues with Trump, and yes, uncover illegal business.

Or show that he operated on the right side of the law. Which, as you say, is what matters. I'd also add that there are other reasons why a president's involvement with Russian oligarchs, mafia, corrupt foreign governments/officials, laundering, etc, etc, OR NOT matter.


Now who is it who is preventing these tax returns from being produced? Me? You? Law? or Trump alone?


The net is closing in, regardless.

The amount of smoke is becoming choking and everything is starting to link together in ways where there just has to be more than a small fire. It's an inferno.

Jej.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Now who is it who is preventing these tax returns from being produced? Me? You? Law? or Trump alone?

Can't he be forced to make his taxes public? If not, then I'd say the law (or law enforcement) is the problem. I'm sure he has things to hide and if the law allows it, he will hide them.

Hillary got away with all her shady businesses too, because the law made a political decision to not prosecute. It is also known (it's on the books!) that she received political money from Saudis. But for the left this doesn't seem to be as important as the possibility & suspicion that Trump might have some unspecified ties with "Russia". Quite hypocritical, imo.

In a purely theoretical world, all these politicians are corrupt shit, that smell bad to worse and I'd never vote for. Would rather vote for some utopian perfectly moral candidate. But in the actual world the option was between Hillary & Trump. Which makes Trump the better choice.