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Beefowns3 wrote:
Does anyone have experience comparing this elementalist version with the penta golem necro version?
In terms of clear speed / end game content consistency.
Looking to start a golem build but not sure which version to go for
Switched over to elementalist 2 days ago and it's much better.
Couldn't kill yber atziri / shaper with the necro one but the 6 fire golems atleast seem they should be able to do the job.
Now just have to upgrade some gear so they wont kill me :)
So in short, elementalist all the way.
ign: etb_JuJa
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Posted byJuJa#6738on Jan 5, 2017, 6:14:51 PM
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Smooshfaced wrote:
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vjru5zl0v3 wrote:
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KinGGaiA wrote:
quick math on that:
6 flame golems = 600 DPS (lets say 1 flame golem does 100 DPS)
6 flame golems + 9x harmony (180) = 1 680 DPS
5 flame golems + 9x harmony (360) = 2 300 DPS
4 flame golems + 9x harmony (540) = 2 560 DPS
3 flame golems + 9x harmony (720) = 2 460 DPS
that right, never go full flame golem
math explain here:
-u have 6 max golem (2clayshaper)
-each golem deal X dmg
-9 jewel bonus 180% golem dmg per golem type (u can invest more jewel but normal, let say 9 as i planing)
so the dmg output will be: X*(number of flame golem)*(number golem type)*180%
1/ 6flame, 1type = X*6*1*180% = X*1080%
2/ 5flame, 2type = X*5*2*180% = X*1800%
3/ 4flame, 3type = X*4*3*180% = X*2160% *
4/ 3flame, 4type = X*3*4*180% = X*1620%
5/ 2flame, 5type = X*2*5*180% = X*1800%
6/ 1flame, 6type = only 5 golem type so math stop here...
yep, the best result is 4flame golem and 2 other golem (your choice, if go uber queen or shaper put ice and light so they will not die during boss fight, normal map i think stone golem or chaos better)
The math here is not quite right.
You stated:
3/ 4flame, 3type = X*4*3*180% = X*2160% *
4/ 3flame, 4type = X*3*4*180% = X*1620%
However, they both net X*2160 where X is the base damage of a single fire golem. (When only multiplying a line of numbers, order of operations ceases to matter). So that makes them SEEM equal on damage. But this only takes into account your flame golem's damage and nothing else. You net a new golem, which increases the buffs to you (ie. I'm able to get a reduction from phys dmg from a chaos golem I wouldn't have otherwise) AND, the above math assumes the other golems do a net zero of damage, which is also not the case. Both the chaos and stone golem can 1 shot a pack of whites in high tier maps easily with the 720% dmg multiplier on their aoe skills as well as tank and aggro monsters that would otherwise get in the face of the flamers causing them to not use their fireball bombardment skill. Many times those 2 golems have held bosses at a distance for me to allow my flame golems to spend more time using their most powerful skill.
The lightning golem is just there to blind/cull/mf which is great on bosses and in breaches.
As for the shield, I'm not sure that it beats the damage boost from an extra golem, but I haven't really sat down to do the math to prove it. I'd love to see valid math on that, but my guess is that 3 frenzy charges (all you'll maintain on bosses, the only place you actually need extra dps) won't give more damage than an extra golem, either flame or buffed from harmonies.
You guys are forgetting that this is increased damage, and simply adds to the rest of the inc damage you already have from the tree and gear and so on, which would throw off your calculation by a fair amount (looks like 130% plus with glove enchant, uber enchant and the standard passives, this is about elementalist but being necro nets a further 130%).
It still might be worth it, I certainly havent done the damage (I'm only running 4 total golems as I'm necro CI) but your calculations are ignoring a fair chunk of base which isn't being increased by the harmonies, in the harmonies benefit.
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Posted bytom38#2185on Jan 6, 2017, 6:18:18 AM
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why are flame golems better than light/cold golems?
IGN: Perz | Reaver: view-thread/523959 | Wander: view-thread/742525 | Cycloner: view-thread/804489
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Posted byPerz#2458on Jan 6, 2017, 12:19:47 PM
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how do you deal with mana regen / cost of casting golems? I assume you spam recast for damage increase?
Cost me almost my entire mana to cast one on a 6l right now.
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Posted byKezz123#5086on Jan 6, 2017, 6:35:51 PM
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JuJa wrote:
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Beefowns3 wrote:
Does anyone have experience comparing this elementalist version with the penta golem necro version?
In terms of clear speed / end game content consistency.
Looking to start a golem build but not sure which version to go for
Switched over to elementalist 2 days ago and it's much better.
Couldn't kill yber atziri / shaper with the necro one but the 6 fire golems atleast seem they should be able to do the job.
Now just have to upgrade some gear so they wont kill me :)
So in short, elementalist all the way.
Ele is better for certain endgame bosses due to the flame golems having elemental immunity. However, outside of Liege of the Primordial, Elementalist is lacking in utility/defense compared to Necro is but is superior offensively.
The biggest loss from necro is mistress of sacrifice, so you lose block and movespeed buffs for your character. With Rumis, you can get up to 70/44 block which is nothing to sneeze at. Flesh offering + quicksilver means you are zooming around fast.
But +1 golem and elemental immunity is big boon. Harmony stacking is even more effective to the point you don't miss the minion dmg from necro and hardly need to pick up nodes in the tree. (4 flame golems + 2 different golems = 60% dmg per jewel!)
Admittedly I haven't tried Ele but I enjoy the utility of Necromancer and my lvl 26 golems do plenty of damage. I wish Mastermind of Discord worked with minions :/
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Perz wrote:
why are flame golems better than light/cold golems?
Flame golems have superior spells and dmg compared to cold and lightning. Their projectile attack with gmp annihilates the screen. Cold and lightning have no abilities close to that.
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sinfoniantuba11 wrote:
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Perz wrote:
why are flame golems better than light/cold golems?
Flame golems have superior spells and dmg compared to cold and lightning. Their projectile attack with gmp annihilates the screen. Cold and lightning have no abilities close to that.
i see. ty
another question: where can i see the base dmg of the flame golem's skills? i want to find out if anger is worth using on a low life build.
also what is cooldown reduction on golems (harmony jewel) good for? i dont rly see a difference with 4 of these jewels vs none of those.
IGN: Perz | Reaver: view-thread/523959 | Wander: view-thread/742525 | Cycloner: view-thread/804489 Last edited by Perz#2458 on Jan 7, 2017, 11:45:28 AM
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Posted byPerz#2458on Jan 7, 2017, 7:44:06 AM
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I dont understand the benefits of Victario shield?
based on what I have seen here. people seem to think that the shield will improve defense but it does not since you have Aegis in the skill tree. All the resists / benefits from the shield are passed down to the golems. On the flip side, the golems now pass down power and frenzy charges to us...but we dont really do any damage to use them? So the golems never get charges....
What am I missing? or are people mistaken as to how this work?
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Posted byKezz123#5086on Jan 7, 2017, 1:32:49 PM
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sinfoniantuba11 wrote:
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JuJa wrote:
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Beefowns3 wrote:
Does anyone have experience comparing this elementalist version with the penta golem necro version?
In terms of clear speed / end game content consistency.
Looking to start a golem build but not sure which version to go for
Switched over to elementalist 2 days ago and it's much better.
Couldn't kill yber atziri / shaper with the necro one but the 6 fire golems atleast seem they should be able to do the job.
Now just have to upgrade some gear so they wont kill me :)
So in short, elementalist all the way.
Ele is better for certain endgame bosses due to the flame golems having elemental immunity. However, outside of Liege of the Primordial, Elementalist is lacking in utility/defense compared to Necro is but is superior offensively.
The biggest loss from necro is mistress of sacrifice, so you lose block and movespeed buffs for your character. With Rumis, you can get up to 70/44 block which is nothing to sneeze at. Flesh offering + quicksilver means you are zooming around fast.
But +1 golem and elemental immunity is big boon. Harmony stacking is even more effective to the point you don't miss the minion dmg from necro and hardly need to pick up nodes in the tree. (4 flame golems + 2 different golems = 60% dmg per jewel!)
Admittedly I haven't tried Ele but I enjoy the utility of Necromancer and my lvl 26 golems do plenty of damage. I wish Mastermind of Discord worked with minions :/
After running everything as a Hybrid life/es Necro, with shaper down but since uber atziri was impossible I changed to CI Elementalist and I do not regret it for a single moment, everything is just so much smoother. More than 11k ES without having too many ES nodes, got 13 jewels sockets, so that makes 10 Harmonies, 200% dmg boost per golem type(4 flames,1 light, 1 chaos). The clear speed is pretty damn insane. Running Convocation in CWDT so Lightning warping into a pack is like dropping a nuke. The golems are pretty much immortal with the immune + 30k hp with 20% hp/s regen. The chaos one dies sometimes due to it not being immune but re-casting it once in a while is fine :P And since they are immune you can instant die on uber atziri and go make some tea while they kill her ;)
Last edited by Gnejs#2743 on Jan 7, 2017, 6:29:33 PM
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Posted byGnejs#2743on Jan 7, 2017, 6:27:50 PM
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Ahhhhh so they do pass the buff to each other at least.
I was wondering
kinda tried another clayshaper instead of shield and clear seems faster.
is it better to run 6 flame golem or 6 flame and 1 stone from clayshaper for extra damage to all? again, almost seems faster with all flame golems....not sure on boss.
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Posted byKezz123#5086on Jan 7, 2017, 9:03:34 PM
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