New Meta with Support Guardian 30k+ ES (Really GGG?)

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edgewood wrote:

Only problem I see with this is if GGG decides to balance the game assuming everyone is going to walk around with 30kes and they ramp up the damage to be on par with that.

No. What GGG should do in their game code is IF it sees somebody or several players in a Party (or solo) is using certain known overpowered Support setups THEN scale monster damage off that ELSE do nothing.

Otherwise, if that is not a legit fix for what the OP is talking about, then just don't Party with other players running what you think are overpowered, ridiculous setups. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to join up with overpowered players, neither is it required to join them unless you choose to.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No. What GGG should do in their game code is IF it sees somebody or several players in a Party (or solo) is using certain known overpowered Support setups THEN scale monster damage off that ELSE do nothing.

You want them to come up with some sort of algorithm that detects certain party setups ?

lol.

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dyneol wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No. What GGG should do in their game code is IF it sees somebody or several players in a Party (or solo) is using certain known overpowered Support setups THEN scale monster damage off that ELSE do nothing.

You want them to come up with some sort of algorithm that detects certain party setups ?

lol.

What is the difference with other things GGG has coded to run a 'check' on players' characters? You laugh like such a system is so beyond GGG's capabilities when you would be very wrong, especially when you consider the fact the engine itself is constantly being improved to unlock more possibilities.

So tell me, do you have a better idea? *listening*

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

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dyneol wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

No. What GGG should do in their game code is IF it sees somebody or several players in a Party (or solo) is using certain known overpowered Support setups THEN scale monster damage off that ELSE do nothing.

You want them to come up with some sort of algorithm that detects certain party setups ?

lol.

What is the difference with other things GGG has coded to run a 'check' on players' characters? You laugh like such a system is so beyond GGG's capabilities when you would be very wrong, especially when you consider the fact the engine itself is constantly being improved to unlock more possibilities.

So tell me, do you have a better idea? *listening*

Keep listening ... that suggestion is so hilariously stupid on so many levels (note, I don't insult you, only your idea) that I don't even know where to start.

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dyneol wrote:

Keep listening ... that suggestion is so hilariously stupid on so many levels (note, I don't insult you, only your idea) that I don't even know where to start.

Right, but since the idea came from me, you are therefore insulting my intelligence that is part of me. One does not call somebody's idea(s) stupid without also calling the person stupid. Not how it works.

That being said, it is actually not a bad idea since what GGG is doing now by buffing monsters globally no matter what players are running isn't jiving very well with many players, so yes, I believe I will keep listening until somebody comes up with something better, thank you very much ^^

The idea I propose zeroes in on only certain things when certain conditions are met (big difference).

When

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edgewood wrote:

Only problem I see with this is if GGG decides to balance the game assuming everyone is going to walk around with 30kes and they ramp up the damage to be on par with that.

He made a pretty good point, because buffing monsters globally by 'assuming everyone is going to walk around with 30k ES' (just an example) is not a good idea since doing so will inadvertently affect weaker builds that are not quite as OP.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

He made a pretty good point, because buffing monsters globally by 'assuming everyone is going to walk around with 30k ES' (just an example) is not a good idea since doing so will inadvertently affect weaker builds that are not quite as OP.

I pointed out the exact same thing earlier in the thread. Trying to dynamically balance around certain builds and build combinations would come with a whole chunk of new problems and is pretty backwards. I don't see why guardian should provide +100% (and more) defense in the first place.

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dyneol wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

He made a pretty good point, because buffing monsters globally by 'assuming everyone is going to walk around with 30k ES' (just an example) is not a good idea since doing so will inadvertently affect weaker builds that are not quite as OP.

I pointed out the exact same thing earlier in the thread. Trying to dynamically balance around certain builds and build combinations would come with a whole chunk of new problems and is pretty backwards. I don't see why guardian should provide +100% (and more) defense in the first place.

If you think monsters getting buffed in such way so as to level out the field with what players are running when utilizizing certain know OP setups is 'backwards', then I have nothing else to add/say after this reply.

Furthermore, any type of balance, whether what I propose(d) is implemented or not does not come without its fair share of 'problems/bugs', so that part of your reply does absolutely nothing to support your end of this discussion since 'problems/bugs' are to be expected by default when any change is made to the game.

Problems... / bugs... They are learning experiences for game developers, some of which can lead to the discovery of new mechanics by accident that can be used in the future, no different from the process of invention itself with much trial and error, so what's the big deal?

Even the astute Albert Einstein himself said, and I quote, "A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new." end of quote, for a reason. He encourages people to try different things and make mistakes so that maybe new different things can be discovered and put to use. It may work, it may not, but how will GGG ever know if they do not give something different a try in the realm of balancing?

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

What is the difference with other things GGG has coded to run a 'check' on players' characters? You laugh like such a system is so beyond GGG's capabilities when you would be very wrong, especially when you consider the fact the engine itself is constantly being improved to unlock more possibilities.

So tell me, do you have a better idea? *listening*

Idea is simple. Nerf Guardian, nerf curses, increase HP scaling in party to ~80-90% per party member, add ~10% dmg increase per party member.

Right now gameplay in good party with few dps and a support is annihilation of red maps with any rolls on it. Monster HP doesn't scale good enough with party members which results into huge overkill, while support makes party defences overscale content damage output and that combined removes most challenges from routine farm like it used to be and still is in solo, where you can get oneshoted at any moment.

This is not healthy for APRG when there's such huge gap between solo and party play. I know another game with the same problem that is dying right now called Diablo 3, where you litterally can't do anything without full party and 2-3 supports in it. Do you want Path of Exile to become the same? I don't wanna see my favourity RPG to get ruined like that!

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chistor_ wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

What is the difference with other things GGG has coded to run a 'check' on players' characters? You laugh like such a system is so beyond GGG's capabilities when you would be very wrong, especially when you consider the fact the engine itself is constantly being improved to unlock more possibilities.

So tell me, do you have a better idea? *listening*

Idea is simple. Nerf Guardian, nerf curses, increase HP scaling in party to ~80-90% per party member, add ~10% dmg increase per party member.

Right now gameplay in good party with few dps and a support is annihilation of red maps with any rolls on it. Monster HP doesn't scale good enough with party members which results into huge overkill, while support makes party defences overscale content damage output and that combined removes most challenges from routine farm like it used to be and still is in solo, where you can get oneshoted at any moment.

This is not healthy for APRG when there's such huge gap between solo and party play. I know another game with the same problem that is dying right now called Diablo 3, where you litterally can't do anything without full party and 2-3 supports in it. Do you want Path of Exile to become the same? I don't wanna see my favourity RPG to get ruined like that!

Well, it is a good thing that you aren't part of the balancing team. What kind of crap balance is this? There are very few people playing Guardian and you want to nerf it further? Is this a serious statement?

For your information, team play is meant to be stronger than solo play. They even have passives in Tree and Ascendancy, and also skill gems that are meant for team play. It is beyond me why you would think otherwise.

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Starxsword wrote:

Well, it is a good thing that you aren't part of the balancing team. What kind of crap balance is this? There are very few people playing Guardian and you want to nerf it further? Is this a serious statement?

For your information, team play is meant to be stronger than solo play. They even have passives in Tree and Ascendancy, and also skill gems that are meant for team play. It is beyond me why you would think otherwise.

Team is meant to be stronger right, but the gap has to be smaller, with those changes team play with still be more effective than solo. Just not as rediculously easy as it is right now.