Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies
" So it is a lack of effort on your part that prompts you to not post on topic. At least it is well explained now. |
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" I've actually thought about this, and I'm sure there is probably a correlation between how much a player achieves in terms of in game wealth or character level(s) vs how much mtx or supporter packs they bought. For example if people who spend 1k tend to have much more than those who never spend does that make whatever mtx the supporter bought p2w? If a person with a well decorated hideout tends to trade more and this makes them better skilled and more successful at trade does this mean those ho mtx were p2w? A cool pet could cause you to play, idk, 20% longer than you might otherwise and maybe you get a good item because of that extra play time. Is a psychological benefit that doesn't otherwise affect the actual game still constitute an advantage? The difficulty in making a real case for p2w comes in correlation vs causation and quantifying something so abstract. And then when you consider that just having in game friends could provide you with the same benefits - causing you to play longer, more skillfully and could correlate to having more success than those who play alone. It may not be p2w but it's an interesting thought. |
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" I did explain that owning tabs does not somehow make it a Pay2Win feature, which is just another fallacy. So you see, I am on the topic. |
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" This is exactly what the tabs do. I would say good effort, but it really is not a good effort on your part to prove the point you are trying to make. Premium tabs make trading easier/faster. This in turn means players that have them can list/sell items faster. This means a player with equal time to play and no premium tabs is at a disadvantage. Note: I am speaking from the experience of having/using tabs before and after the trade features were implemented. It is definitely faster and easier to trade with them now; it is a clear PAID advantage. |
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My personal point of view on the matter: tabs are p2win, because they give the owner an ingame advantage - more storage space. Premium tabs are even more so, they also give the owner a convenient ingame selling system. Currency are like standard stash - more storage space - and some further convenience since you can tell at a glance how much currency you have and more quickly move it around...
That specified, they're low in the p2win scale - Premium a bit higher that the others, Standard maybe even not since you can mule and make alt accounts for free - but they're in there nonetheless. The only things truly not pay2win are cosmetics and pets ( and there was a debate long ago about pets, since they could easily tell you when you d'synced ...). So, since at some points - closed beta? - GGG stated that they would only ever sell cosmetics and nothing pay2win, they could - by my personal point of view- be called "liars"... "Metas rotate all the time, eventually the developers will buff melee" PoE 2013-2018 Last edited by Wazz72#5866 on Apr 4, 2016, 9:16:08 AM
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" show ggg your resolve then quit. No rest for the wicked
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" The problem isn't how to define Pay2Win. The problem is that Pay2Win is bad, because it destroys your past efforts. Therein also lies its definition. The blue frog doesn't destroy any of your past efforts. More items now being on poe.trade for everyone to buy doesn't destroy them either. What does destroy it are things where you can buy yourself into the game and achieve a status, level or wealth in a short time comparable to that of somebody who has been playing the game for a long time, and only by the use of real world money. Players can no longer compare themselves to others by mere terms of time and game play, but it ends up being all about money. That's when gaming turns into gambling. All the other nonsense here are just hurt feelings, envy, jealously, idiocy - or in short, comments by people who aren't actually being serious. They think almost anything here is Pay2Win ... They have no idea how sheltered they actually have it here. |
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" No. Again, it is about your past efforts and not your future efforts. You also make the assumption that faster equals richer and better. It doesn't. faster isn't richer or better. Trading isn't winning. You can win and you can lose. You could lose faster than before or win faster. More importantly, is it entirely your responsibility as any result from trading is the consequence of player interactions. Any imagined winnings and losses of the future are just that - imaginations. GGG cannot be held responsible for what you imagine. If you choose not to use a new feature and as a result your progress slows down, then this can well be a consequence of it. The feature however did not destroy your efforts up to the point of its introduction, at which moment you then decided not to further play the game with all its features as the game has changed. What you do is to demand that the game may never change. May that as it be, but games do change and you can choose to change with it or not. GGG cannot be held responsible for how players play their game. They'd be trying to herd cats if they did. |
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" Except league gates content thru pay wall or extreme grind. The grind time is far more then the casual player typically has time for so they pick and choose what they want. Having the ability to play every single hero in the game, have all the fancy runes and shit is an advantage, you literally gain what others can't get in a reasonable amount of time. So if we are discussing p2w and the aspect that having more stash space = automatically win, that is false. My friend is a complete noob, he doesn't ask me for help really and I don't care how "efficient" he is because he is having fun. I could potentially ruin his experience by sharing too much information or by PC every item or giving him as much knowledge as possible. If he was able to sell items past the initial stash tabs worth then he is gaining an advantage outside of the game while utilizing the free stash tabs provided to him. However without the knowledge or the ability to price check items, that stash space does NOTHING. So how can something which by definition has no value in itself "win" you anything in PoE? You must have knowledge for it to be useful. P2W elements are not ones that require knowledge or experience, they simply require an amount of money spent and are instantly at an advantage, do you firmly believe this is the case in PoE considering the fact every single transaction requires interaction and every single transaction requires knowledge of pricing? " Map stash doesn't work because maps are rolled individually, like rare maps, blue maps, ect. They aren't all the same unless they are white and idk about you but I try and roll my maps on downtime or when I'm cleaning stash or making trades instead of in the middle of a mapping session. Card stash? Like people already typically have a tab dedicated to cards, at least if you have the space you do. The more common cards just aren't even worth picking up anymore. As for the rest I've never had a need to use more then 1\2 stash space on cards. So a divination card tab isn't providing me with anything I don't already have. Gem stash? Who fucking keeps gems anymore, what is this 2013? Except for drop only gems there really isn't a need to keep anything. Again gems don't work as a stash idea because they can have quality. I keep a tab for quality gems and turn them into GCPs every once and a while. You know what else can save you space instead of a currency tab? Converting your currency...the only affect it has on me is I don't feel like I have to convert my currency, despite me having 70 or whatever tabs I never really liked to horde that much currency or at least the lower stuff. The currency tab allows people to better organize their currency in one single place. However it is flawed in its layout, its only a matter of time before people accidentally exalt a map instead of chaosing it. The stacks are still limited to their default amounts outside of that tab, because people have gotten used to those amounts. To change them now could be disastrous. Lets also not forget you likely don't have enough currency to be bitching about stack sizes to begin with. Is it slightly QoL by having it, sure, does it provide a direct advantage that a free player doesn't get? No, free players have stash space to start as well. " That stash space is useless unless you know what to do with it. That knowledge doesn't come with the purchase of the stash space. Furthermore the premium tabs provide you nothing you couldn't do with 3rd party programs that have been proven safe and vetted by the community for years. As for currency tabs, you can tell at a glace what you have if you aren't a disorganized slob. The currency tab just prevents people from being disorganized basically. But someone with good organization skills can do the same fucking thing. You know how much each stack of currency is, you know how many slots are in a column, its not that hard to do the math, even at a glace. " Premium CANT be any higher then regular ones because they don't provide anything other then what the regular ones do with 3rd party programs. Except colors, having fancier colors is the advantage here? As for pets, LOL because of desync ok dude...... " Here is the thing all you people can learn. Your point of view isn't the final word on P2W or not. If you don't like it I guess you all can keep crying like babies, won't change the fact that they sell stash tabs, premium tabs and currency tabs. That won't change, if they decide to make 1 of the free tabs premium, then I guess you all "won" but in terms of changing the scope of the issue you won't. P2W definition via urban dictionary: " or another: " I think this is an important one, better players, aka ones that have the knowledge of items, builds, economy, ect will always have the advantage. You can spend 1k on stash tabs and list every single item you have looted, won't change the fact that someone who spends little to nothing but has knowledge will out perform you. " Easier\faster? It actually takes the same amount of time if you have tabs for separate buyouts, as for individual pricing I guess its time saved? I don't really individually price items that much. Lets put this in better perspective, you and I are put into a league. Brand new characters, who has the advantage? Lets say you do, lets say I buy stash tabs, does that increase the advantage by just having the stash space, what if I don't know how to price items or I like to horde useless low level uniques, what if you are the tetris master and are better then I am at pricing, you still have the advantage? Equal time to play isn't a good judge of anything. 2 people can play the game in vastly different ways, not only that their goals may be vastly different. If my goal is to test a build and get to 90, stash tabs have little to no influence on that. If my goal is to reach level 100 as fast as possible, then its far more advantageous for me to spend more time playing then selling. What if I had friends that were selling my items for 30% cut on them, which they looted in maps I already cleared? Thats P2W via socialization right? I mean anything that gives you an advantage you all are construing as P2W, so literally playing with others, trading with others or interacting with even cadiro is p2w following your guy's logic. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. Last edited by goetzjam#3084 on Apr 4, 2016, 10:03:02 AM
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" Yeah! Rather than discuss the problem rationally and suggest ways to fix it, just quit! That'll show 'em! lol Regardless, Qiu_Qiu said it well: " My thoughts on those questions: +Yes. I can't see any reason why it would be otherwise. +No, actually, they don't (though they have every right as a business to get more money) +We don't know, but I would bet that opening it to everyone up will create backlash, just as closing it to some people has made backlash +Yes, most assuredly. The current system works well for paid users, but that's about it. |
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