Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies

Perhaps you would elucidate the advantage that is being paid for, as I'm not clear on why you're so outraged. Both methods post to poe.xyz in a timely fashion. One requires opening a second program, but allows you to modify prices when you aren't at your stash (Acquisition), which is why I still often use Acquisition.

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

I don't pay the closest attention to when they hire new people so I don't know the current number. You can say hiring people obviously means they have enough money for now but there is also the possibility they hired new people for things here and there to hopefully boost sales again because of performance improvement over the short and long term, updates that we collectively like, etc.

they should be around 70 now with the 7 they employed from gameloft.

the fact that ggg now sells mtx is clearly a sign that they don't rely on idealism of some few to support the game anymore. the startup times are long over. "sales" do not make sense on pure support anyway.

without pushing some players to support, they will not be able to stock up their dev power to make xpacks in short cycles and keep the quality. software tends to not getting easier if devs poke around with it for years :-)
more staff can mean more quality if it allows for devs to specialize in certain topics.

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Miazga wrote:

all you super duper supporters with your moms credit card

erm, nope.
girlfriend can't buy new shoes for years not because i spend it all on poe and computers.

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on topic: pay to win would mean if they sell you a helmet with +75 all res and 100 life exclusively through their pay shop.

in difference, public stash tabs aren't neccessary to finish the normal game. especially since you can still sell your items with procurement.

free to play and free to power play are different things.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Miazga wrote:

Im fully aware that the 3rd party programs still work, heck Im using one of the them for long time to manage my shop.

The point is that GGG added paid feature that give advantage over non paid features that are available to whole player base. As I said before, GGG will not back down, but they should have at least enough decency to inform people of their true intention behind it - making money.

A company trying to make money, how fucking dare they!


How the fuck is it an advantage when free tabs and free 3rd party programs do the same fucking thing.

wow, your post is very constructive. Got anything more to say ?

If you would take a bit more time to think before writing non sense, you would come to conclusion that GGG offered a mtx support model of funding, also crowd funding in very early stages. The support was, and I think still is sufficient for the company to allow development unless major changes have been made within the company that are not been released to public. If you think about it, the model GGG produced is very good and many other free 2 play game developers could use to learn. the large quantity of mtx available from really cheap ones to various support packs that can bring a lot of capital (with little to non cost for the company itself), all the way to developing unique items with a supporter (for the price).

Hence I'm really disappointed by GGG with their money making move - and calling it "Quality of life" mtx.

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Miazga wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Miazga wrote:

Im fully aware that the 3rd party programs still work, heck Im using one of the them for long time to manage my shop.

The point is that GGG added paid feature that give advantage over non paid features that are available to whole player base. As I said before, GGG will not back down, but they should have at least enough decency to inform people of their true intention behind it - making money.

A company trying to make money, how fucking dare they!


How the fuck is it an advantage when free tabs and free 3rd party programs do the same fucking thing.

wow, your post is very constructive. Got anything more to say ?

If you would take a bit more time to think before writing non sense, you would come to conclusion that GGG offered a mtx support model of funding, also crowd funding in very early stages. The support was, and I think still is sufficient for the company to allow development unless major changes have been made within the company that are not been released to public. If you think about it, the model GGG produced is very good and many other free 2 play game developers could use to learn. the large quantity of mtx available from really cheap ones to various support packs that can bring a lot of capital (with little to non cost for the company itself), all the way to developing unique items with a supporter (for the price).

Hence I'm really disappointed by GGG with their money making move - and calling it "Quality of life" mtx.

Everything on this topic has been said in every single post regarding the premium tabs to date. Sorry but beating the horse to death doesn't help the point.

You haven't proven shit when it comes to P2W, considering there isn't really anything you are paying to do that you cant do for free for basically the same time invested as well.


What worked previously and what works for GGG as a model isn't an indication of what they might do in the future in order to make money. Adding a feature to an already existing premium style content isn't a bad thing, its a good thing.

As for the OP post itself, its one of the worst to date to present the argument, I honestly thought it was a satire joke making fun of the situation, instead you are honestly upset about it, for reasons I don't know (seeing as you are a supporter I'm pretty sure of it)

Use the tools given to you for free.

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Miazga wrote:

Im fully aware that the 3rd party programs still work, heck Im using one of the them for long time to manage my shop.

The point is that GGG added paid feature that give advantage over non paid features that are available to whole player base. As I said before, GGG will not back down, but they should have at least enough decency to inform people of their true intention behind it - making money.

What advantage? I've said it in other topics, but nothing has changed for me. Acquisition, after taking a few minutes to set up initially, does the exact same function. I drop item in shop tab. Acquisition tells poe.trade about it and it's listed within minutes. When a free alternatives stops existing, I'll jump on your bandwagon. But as of now you're not paying for anything you can't get for free.

And did you complain about those stash tabs you bought being p2w as well? The free alternative is alternate free accounts and characters. If you didn't complain then (or even if you did it didn't stop you from buying tabs), your moral highground is hypocritical.

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goetzjam wrote:

Everything on this topic has been said in every single post regarding the premium tabs to date. Sorry but beating the horse to death doesn't help the point.

You haven't proven shit when it comes to P2W, considering there isn't really anything you are paying to do that you cant do for free for basically the same time invested as well.


What worked previously and what works for GGG as a model isn't an indication of what they might do in the future in order to make money. Adding a feature to an already existing premium style content isn't a bad thing, its a good thing.

As for the OP post itself, its one of the worst to date to present the argument, I honestly thought it was a satire joke making fun of the situation, instead you are honestly upset about it, for reasons I don't know (seeing as you are a supporter I'm pretty sure of it)

Such shit fucking arguments. Citing a third party tool that's supported by the community and not officially provided by the game as being equal in weight to an in game tool that you pay for as an additional feature is really just trying to brush the issue off. Yeah, that tool exists and serves as a practical alternative, but it's still not part of the game and support for it can be dropped at anytime.

It's even reasonable to think that the developers would stop supporting it, because if the volume of players who have paid for the feature gets high enough, it might not be a worthy investment of time compared to other projects. With the new additions to the API, third party trading sites might just stop supporting forum post scraping and solely rely on the premium stash tabs. Thus, if that were to happen, the disadvantage between players who didn't buy premium tabs and those who will did would be much clearer than it is now.

Nor do other arguments around the OP being too cheap to buy them or GGG's right to make money as a company have anything to do with this. Yes, they have a right to make money as a company, but that doesn't mean that any criticism of how they choose to go about doing it is instantly invalid or discussing whether or not their chosen methods will have a long term impact of the game not warranted.

You have countered arguments on increased drop rates based on how it would influence trade and trade being the way you beat RNG in the game. Obviously, you are well aware of how important trade is to the game, but then when it comes to discussing the impact of making official in game support of trade a premium feature and how that will impact the player base, you just cite some third party unofficial community tool that's immaterial to the scope of the discussion and throw a bunch of cuss words and insults around to try and wear down the patience and morale of anyone daring to suggest that something GGG did was less than perfect.

I'm actually quite fine with the trade tabs. I'll pay for them. I think it skirts the line of designing the game with an incentive to promote microtransactions, but I'm cynical enough to think that's inevitable and its current form is far, far more acceptable than other violators. But even with those personal opinions, it's still an issue worthy of being discussed.

Don't like it? Don't read the fucking threads.

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I_NO wrote:

Use the tools given to you for free.

What really bugs me is that actually GGG hasn't given us any tools to do it for free, but third parties has.

What bugs me more is that yestarday for some reason Poe.trade wasn't working for me, and in dire need for a quick chest to cap my resistance i tried exiletrade, that i think isn't using forum scrapers anymore since exiletools should have drop support on that.

If i see it in that way yesterday premium tab' for me were completely p2w. What if tomorrow Poe.trade goes offline forever or they just drop forum scrapers? Would GGG waste rosurces to have their own forum scraper an listing web site to give to everyone the chance to trade with or without tab?

Is this really how things should go?

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Frattagli4 wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

Use the tools given to you for free.

What really bugs me is that actually GGG hasn't given us any tools to do it for free, but third parties has.

What bugs me more is that yestarday for some reason Poe.trade wasn't working for me, and in dire need for a quick chest to cap my resistance i tried exiletrade, that i think isn't using forum scrapers anymore since exiletools should have drop support on that.

If i see it in that way yesterday premium tab' for me were completely p2w. What if tomorrow Poe.trade goes offline forever or they just drop forum scrapers? Would GGG waste rosurces to have their own forum scraper an listing web site to give to everyone the chance to trade with or without tab?

Is this really how things should go?

Seperate issue. Procurement provides help in creating trade forum posts to be scraped and indexed by third party tools and the premium stash tabs provide support for indexing the items within them for use by consumers of their API (also, poe.trade).

So if all third party trading sites were to go offline tomorrow, the premium stash tabs would be equally as useless.

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Miazga wrote:

Well I bought few stash tab bundles (standard ones), and I could even pay these 15 coins per tab to upgrade some to premium, but its my choice to not do so. I refuse to pay for features which should be available to all players, per core values GGG used to be so proud of.

If the 3rd party tools went away, I expect GGG would do something to rectify the imbalance there, since a currency tab COULD become P2W at that point. BUT WAIT....the forums still work right? I'm sorry, but it is DEFINITELY a QoL


Advantages over forum
- Less time spent managing your shop
- more accurate "online" status




Public Sell tabs and forum shops all send their data to the same place and get aggregated. Explain to me ONE just ONE actual functionality that it adds over forum shop that is not a convenience/time saver.