Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies
" How else would they make money? It's an indie company, If there's free tools for you to do so then by all means do so like fuck and don't go I'm a fanboy because I promise you despite I support them I do not agree with everything that they do. Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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" It's more than that. The new API is intended to be a replacement for the forum post scraping. That intention is clearly stated in their announcement on the subject. It's not only not unreasonable, but probable to think that as premium stash tabs phase in as the new standard for trading that third party trading sites will not supporting scraping of the trade forums. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1595024 |
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I'm not trying to be a duck I_NO, but sometimes i can't understand what you write. I mean i don't get anything >_>
What i mean is that a system like this is halfassed to put it kindly, and the indie company argument it's quite useless, GGG would have failed 4 years ago if what was necessary was a premium/trade tab. For an Emperor to be just, an Emperor must be patient.
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" Off topic to what everybody has gone on about: Wow, good for them. Last time I checked on their exact numbers I thought it was something like 32. That must have been longer ago than I had thought. Back on topic: The way rebuttals are devolving in general kind of shows why these threads are pointless as supporters of the premium tabs see it one way and the people who are starkly against it or have some issues with them are focused on a different viewpoint of the issue from supporters. Not trying to say one side has the right viewpoint or not since my siding came from my own view but it just looks like we are trying to mimic extreme conservatives and liberals debating each other. Never going to agree on anything really, but people will keep posting new threads trying to rally their side up in condemnation of the public tabs or to defend them and it doesn't really get anywhere since most players are silently playing the game and can't care too much one way or the other enough to post. "It's all clearer now
And I hear her now And I'm nearer to The Salvation Code" |
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Mostly just read OP and skimmed.
1. The improved trading is a QoL feature. QoL and P2W are not mutually exclusive; actually, every instance of QoL MTX is P2W (including additional non-premium tabs). 2. Gaming companies which make good games do deserve to make money; I do not think anyone sane could argue otherwise. GGG deserves to make shitloads of money. But that doesn't mean something P2W isn't P2W. The main reason developers introduce P2W MTXs is to make money. 3. https://www.pathofexile.com/game "That's a lie, and has been for quite a long time. ------- As far as I'm concerned, the only real problem is #3. "The game is completely free and supported by an ethical microtransaction model" would perhaps be debatable but would be generally true, since GGG's implementation of P2W is orders of magnitude more fair than the typical F2P developer. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 1, 2016, 1:03:50 PM
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1) I have premium tabs and can exploit the trade features
2) I do not agree with pay-to-win quality of life improvements and there is no denying that these are exactly that: Pay-to-win (have an in-game advantage via paying real world money) 3) The trade features were discussed as QoL improvements meant for everyone. GGG reneged on this and instituted the features as pay-only QoL improvements - this is the problem in a nutshell. The GGG statement that "trade features are down the road because QoL improvements are not "marketable"" should clue everyone in to the fact that it is now very likely ALL QoL changes in the future will be pay-only; to make the features "marketable" they put a price tag on them. It's wrong and I think even paying supporters (like myself) should call a spade a spade, to do otherwise is to lie to yourself. Businesses that have pay-to-win business models are not dishonest. GGG is dishonest. Period. |
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" Incorrect.
Announcement Reference
" They state that there are problems with their reliance on the 3rd party approach. 1. Not User Friendly (definitely a QoL issues) that is more or less handled by the Public Stash tabs 2. Inefficient, and trade forums not being meant to be scraped with the large amount of posts and trading, as PoE has grown this has caused scaling issues. In summary, NOT whole replacement, but now has 2 methods, 1 of which is efficient and does not create the site performance issues Also, by providing an API they are making 3rd party tools a much bigger thing, and IMO this is aGOOD thing. By creating a standard interface for 3rd party tools, you are creating a "sanctioned methodology" for creating tools. REMINDER: These are FIRST CHANGES not ALL With that in mind....I would expect to see a couple of things down the road. 1. IF/WHEN forum trading and scraping goes away, some sort of addition for a default public stash tab. Maybe along the lines of an 8 slot public stash. Big enough for the biggest single item and it has to be manually priced. Or maybe they will be more generous. I wouldn't. 2. We have heard that they will be providing cross-instance trading. Meaning you can trade from within the Lab or....from within your hideout while having access to your hideout disabled for others. No more Cadiro steals....if you are careful. Or similar issues. 3. MAYBE far down the road, we may see an in-game trading house search feature. Not likely though. |
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And so the cycle continues:
1. A random person voices concern or negative feedback about premium stash tabs 2. Some people agree with him (random or not) 3. Some people bash him (usually the same persons from every thread of this type), sometimes randoms 4. Back to 1. Usually neither side is willing to budge even a tiny bit in either direction of the discussion, at least of the posters who still post in these threads and so the threads proliferate ad infinitum. Now if both sides actually value the other sides concerns or opinions we would have a valid and constructive feedback thread, by that I mean that the following (wall of text, you have been warned):
Spoiler
Side A (Stash tabs are P2W): * consider that most of the revenue GGG gains is probably through stash tabs * consider that GGG's vision of the game may have changed over the years * consider that you can emulate full functionality by a proven 3rd party app which is open source Side B (Stash tabs are not P2W, get out non paying bum): * consider that games marketed as F2P shouldn't gate core functionality behind a paywall * consider that not everyone has the means to purchase GGG coins (be it from lack of funds or literally no access to online purchases at the moment) * consider that non paying members can still be a productive member of the community which in turn is good for the longevity of the game * consider that some members are afraid/dissapointed by this change because to them it changed what GGG stands for (which may be a biased view or not depending on the future actions they take) * consider that while you can emulate the functionality at the moment, and this is really important, 90% of the trades is done via public tabs which in turn means that there is a high chance of indexers dropping support for forum scrapping entirely and there is no way to pump item data into the internal data stream other than the premium stash tabs. Would premium tabs be a QoL feature then or a core feature? Think about it. And as a last thing to consider, I leave to you to think about the chance of GGG ever supporting forum indexing if they release a ingame search of items. Answer is exactly 0% because scrapping the forum in turns would cost them more than handing out 1 free premium tab (which is you know free because it's virtual goods) rather than devoting time to make a forum scrapper, maintain and update it. Now if this happens the P2W / pay to play would entirely be true because if you think trade chat (aka cancer) is a good way to promote trading to new players all the while claiming it is on the same footing as indexing items I would laugh my ass off. And if you thought party boards were used for trading now, just wait to see what happens if the above hypothetical event happens. That being said at the moment they are 99% the same as using Acquisition from a functional standpoint. [2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662 Last edited by Mannoth#4185 on Apr 1, 2016, 3:24:27 PM
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if you can't afford the $1.50 to upgrade to a premium stash tab then you need to get a job or start collecting pennies.
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@Mannoth While I am staunchly on the tabs are not P2W side...I like to at least think I am considering those points you mention. I included the contingencies of forum scraping and those 3rd party apps still supplying those features AND that if it gets stopped, that GGG would do something to even the playing field.
I fully appreciate the fact that they have the potential to become P2W, but I do not believe they are at that point currently. If I have not been able to express that throughout the multiple threads that I know I have contributed to, than I am sorry. However, I do know that not everyone has been reading all those threads so...dunno. To put it succinctly. Currently, Fears that premium stash tabs are P2W are just fears, but rooted in a modicum of possibility. Those fears will hopefully never come to fruition because of GGGs constant involvement in the community, and the fact that they DO at least try to keep it from being true P2W but close to P4QoL. Thanks for your input, and I hope I have expressed my thoughts on the matter well, but without rancor. |
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