General Discussion - I am a scammer - Account locked? - Forum

" whitelytning wrote: I think it has more to do with the evidence against the scammer and what people would probably call the burden of proof than GGG not being consistent. Hypo 1: InternetKid1 posts that InternetKid2 has scammed them. Hypo 2: Scammer admits to scamming people. In the first hypo its one person's word against another and that other person isn't around to respond to the accusations. GGG rightfully should be hesitant to act. Its not clear if the scam actually happened. Also, GGG doesn't have an investigative team (and shouldn't) and any exception of them taking time and effort to look into the accusation is ridiculous. In the second hypo you have a public confession from the scammer himself. There is much more evidence that a scam occurred, you have fewer people involved, and better evidence and GGG doesn't have to do any investigation or review. Additionally, if GGG doesn't act they look like they don't care. In the ARPGfan case plenty of proof was presented by multiple renown players in the community and GGG chose to let him get a new forum name. This message was delivered by GGG defence force. Last edited by mazul#2568 on Mar 21, 2016, 9:03:07 AM	Posted by mazul#2568 on Mar 21, 2016, 9:03:00 AM Quote this Post
I'd say by scamming you ultimately kill the game you are actively playing. Not sure if on purpose or not. Why? IMO a game in which scamming becomes an acceptable practice, a healthy community can't persist. This game will only grow by attracting new players. I'm deeply convinced, that the latter will however feel repeled by a game in which noone trusts his fellow exile. @OP You say you enjoy getting an edge over people by taking the short-cut and scamming them. Have you ever tried the opposite direction? It indeed goes both ways you know? I have given help and free loot to strangers in need. Only on their agreement that is. These people, mostly newbies at the time, were genuinly happy about this behaviour. While some of them might just take the opportunity and leave, others might adept this behaviour, the same way you adapted yours from the scam you experienced. Ultimately, you might get help from people you helped, creating a short-cut the opposite way. Seeing this as the "healthy" way to go, might however just be due to me growing up in the former communistic part of germany, I might just be an ol'communist by heart after all. hah My 2 cents P	Posted by ben_hure#6467 on Mar 21, 2016, 9:19:10 AM Quote this Post
" Zackro wrote: If you go and read ANY game ToS every single one that isn't a single player game will uphold the right to remove your access from the game as well as delete, remove, or edit the account, items, or player as they see fit and when they see fit. those games all have a entrance fee or mandatorily monthly payment. so they can lock you out based on your identity. ggg only takes the identity of potential supporters and can only securely lock out those who supported the game. you see your path of slippery slope? yep, indeed. they have no means against scammers who play over vpn with permanently changing ip addresses and running the game(s) in a virtual machine. they can only long term hurt those who like the game so much they supported. or those who put alot effort into their poe reputation with their account name. age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!	Posted by vio#1992 on Mar 21, 2016, 9:28:39 AM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" Perq wrote: " Gary_GGG wrote: Players can be and have been permanently banned from the game in the past for scamming. I call bullshit. This is inconsistent with what has been said about scamming earlier, for many times. You either allow it for EVERYONE or you police it and punish EVERYONE. It looks to me, that you are trying to play a scene for Reddit, so people are happy that GGG struck down a scammer. I don't like what OP was doing (and I would never do it myself), but we are following rules and guidelines, or we are not. Im with Perq. My secondary account is my older account, having been around longer than my main, ever since CB they even said that. We dont deal with scammers, wraeclast is a harsh place and if you get scammed too bad, we arent going to do anything about it. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.	Posted by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Mar 21, 2016, 10:25:24 AM Quote this Post
" vio wrote: those games all have a entrance fee or mandatorily monthly payment. so they can lock you out based on your identity. Really? All of them have an entrance fee? To name a few [since you seem to think you are correct] Ragnarok Online, 12 Sky, 12 sky 2, 9 Dragons, BnS, Neverwinter, Wildstar, Tera, ArcheAge, Star Trek, League of Legends, HoN, Asta, Star Trek, Rift, Team Fortress 2, Blacklight Retribution, and WarFrame. Do I need to go on? Every single one of those is just games off the top of my head literally every game that has ever come out [Ever] that has an online platform allowing players to interact with each other in some form has that clause due to protecting themselves from possible frivolous lawsuits. All of those are FTP, require no mandatory monthly payment or entrance fee and all have that same clause of them having ownership of everything on your account. But please go on by telling me ALL of the games that have that clause have mandatory monthly payment fees/entrance fees. Also as a side note, to further prove your [lack of] knowledge you claim that purchasing anything allows them to "securely lock you out" you do realize you can pay with a paypal that isn't linked to your bank account right? Or better yet when you do pay with your paypal to ANY game company [GGG included] it doesn't show your bank, your name, or anything to do with your identity? The way they "Securely Lock You out" is based entirely on your IP which they receive the moment you log into their game, visit their website etc. But banning an IP in this day and age is nearly useless. Last edited by Zackro#4672 on Mar 21, 2016, 10:39:12 AM	Posted by Zackro#4672 on Mar 21, 2016, 10:25:50 AM Quote this Post
" Spoiler I'm not going to be posting regularly however I felt that this topic is very important... I am really confused by GGG on this one. I don't understand how the stance flip flops 180. For the record: I have never scammed in my life, nor have I ever been scammed. However I have been ultra careful and even xenophobic to the community very aware of GGG's stance: Not only do they not punish scammers, they also PROTECT scammers too (by deleting every single line post and banning those who created those threads... name changes... account changes...). Only recently have I joined rotations and even had a few very obvious "oh - it's my turn to share - WOOPS I got lag and got dropped from the game" - I knew this was going to be part of the allowable scamming GGG so it wasn't strange to see. (I'm talking 1 every 10 rotations I feel someone scammed the group so it's not like every single time.) Let's be very clear: the fact that GGG is stating they locked and banned a scammers account is incredibly shocking to me. Is this thread your official statement about scamming GGG? Is what you are saying that from here on out you are no longer allowing scamming in any form in your game? What constitutes a scam? Is someone verbally agreeing to join a rotation and then dropping group - if I can get screenshots of the agreement and someone magically drops group when it's their turn (for example) are you building a case against that individual? (Or am I wasting my time with screen shots and a lengthy lawywer-like disclaimer "attention: if you join this group you hereby agree that you are not to only take everyone's Zana, and when it's your turn you are to share your own failing this to get reported to GGG..." The thing is... I always felt protected by other gaming companies and verbally agreeing to something in chat if someone didn't fulfill their end of the bargain I knew that the chat was captured, and that individual punished even items returned to the player that was scammed. Is this something new we can expect from GGG moving forward? GGG Gary is stating they have permabanned scammers in the past.My account just to remind eryone is locked still under investigation.They have had all the evidence to ban me due to trade trust scams from day 1 cause i gave it to them.Im happy to give them time although it is frustrating ofc,who knows how they will chose to resolve the issue. All i really want is a clear answer as to is metagaming/scamming/what I did allowed or not. It is a simple yes or no at the end of the day.	Posted by Accountlocked#1052 on Mar 21, 2016, 10:44:06 AM Quote this Post
Let Hillock behead him and hang his body in the Tidal Island beach. Brutus might find a good use of his head. P.S. I'd pay 4o,ooo Perandus coins for a pair of his eye to find victims quicker instead of raging spirits. Everything I do should be wrong so please correct me if I do it right <3 Stop Bombing Moment Joon 【Passport & Garcon】https://bit.ly/2wXiUSj MonoNeon 【Put On Earth For You】https://bit.ly/3I22mru Last edited by finisterre#5659 on Mar 21, 2016, 11:10:11 AM	Posted by finisterre#5659 on Mar 21, 2016, 10:55:18 AM Quote this Post
" Accountlocked wrote: All i really want is a clear answer as to is metagaming/scamming/what I did allowed or not. It is a simple yes or no at the end of the day. The problem with taking a clear stance against scamming is that instead of reducing the amount of scams, you just increase the amount of reports without proper evidence. That way you end up increasing the workload for support, resulting in less actual bans for scammers. Especially since dealing with scamming is something you have to do case by case. It's way easier to take a stance against botting for example: you just ban everyone who has used bot x in poe. I've seen it in other games as well: scamming is not mentioned in the rules, but when enough decent evidence is present, scammers get a perma-ban. So the answer to your question all comes down to the evidence against you. Since you have been explaining your victims how you scammed them, there's a reasonably large chance that GGG has enough on you to turn it into a perma-ban. This thread might also help with that, even though your "confession" doesn't have any value as evidence.	Posted by Phillybear#1202 on Mar 21, 2016, 11:01:36 AM Quote this Post
I don't think it is very hard to understand what constitutes scamming and what is bannable. The way I see it, If a player that has supported this game (by giving GGG money) and sends them a report stating player X scammed me and I am no longer playing or supporting your game. Someone will get banned. My guess is that the bans only happen to players that hurt GGG's wallets. Maybe that's where the "your account MAY get banned" comes in...	Posted by Prizy#1622 on Mar 21, 2016, 11:18:25 AM Quote this Post
GGG shouldnt be involved in scamming at any rate, its bad for the game. I hate scammers but they are part of the community and they add immersion to the game. Stupid at first glance dont you think? But think about it. You are exile in god forgotten land where everything and everyone fight for their survival. Killing and lies even the ones that lead to stealing of items should be daily basis here. So that sounds to me like a part of game, even thu 95% of people wont agree to it because they judge in-game world based on real world with is just stupid. Every game have own rules and own universe, just like nobody cry in day-z that you get messed up great time by other players. Thats giant part of their game, survival of the fittest, and nobody should care about butthurt people. Especialy not the people from GGG, since people should learn from their mistakes, people should work for their reputation in their realms/servers and GGG shouldnt interfere with it. I even think naming and shaming should be allowed because thats part of every society. Additionaly, most people that got scammed are just to "care-free" (puting it lightly), I play games for over 10 years and I didnt get scammed, you just need to think what you are doing. If you give items for other people of great value, you automaticly take risk and should be agreeing to the fact that other people might just turn around and run with your goodies. Personaly I dont scam and never will, just not my style of gameplay. But I would never allow (if I could decide) for game developer or admin to interfare with quarels of players inside the game. If you (GGG) think that scammers should be punished, add system to game where you can do something versus scammers, like adding bounties on their head (pvp oriented content).	Posted by herflik#4390 on Mar 21, 2016, 12:49:00 PM Quote this Post