I am a scammer - Account locked?

"

but why the hell aren't we, as a community, already doing this in an organized manner?

I think it's mostly because the community doesn't have the tools to police itself. Some might even argue with the policies GGG has in place that they are being detrimental in our efforts to police ourselves.

You will see occasionally someone called out and named as a scammer in global 820 for not providing their end of a rotation. Often with confirmation from other players. Some people might ignore that user but I imagine many don't even get the message. Ignore is sort of a half-measure, I can't count the number of times someone has had to un-ignore a party member in a rotation for it to continue and 99% of the time they don't remember why they ignored them in the first place. Plus in the end it is possible for some to scam and call someone a scammer who is not. It would take some effort but I wouldn't put it past a scammer to try.

A website could help where people vouch and or tattle (for lack of a better word). But who wants to check that before every rotation? Before a big deal maybe but that is wasting the sellers time and he might just move on without you or sell it to someone else.

"

There is no way to make something like that secure in any game. You always run the inherent risk of the guy skipping off with the money or simply not paying. The solution to that is obvious: Stop being a lazy cunt and do it yourself.

I think you are being very narrow sighted here. Let me try to make it more clear. Lets say I have a SRS build and want to make a +3 fire staff. That requires 3 masters to be level 8. Now yes I could level three masters to level 8 many people have done it, but here is the thing. If I wait until I have all three masters level 8 I am basically gimping my character every day until I get them leveled. I am worse off in maps, not as helpful in parties, not as good at magic finding, heck not even as good at leveling masters. But if I could level say 2 masters and then count on the help of a friend who leveled the third then I would achieve my +3 fire staff much sooner and thus be successful much sooner. It's not a matter of

"

being a lazy cunt

it's a matter of time. A group of people can accomplish much more together than each can individually.

You also say there is no way to make it secure. I disagree the first step to making it somewhat secure is saying clearly and in no vague terms like: we could or we might but instead we will try our hardest to ban scammers for going back on a deal. That is what I think most people want in this thread. Clarity on where GGG stands, not this wishy washy case by case stance. Yes I know GGG can't imagine every way that we will try and scam each other. But here they have a clear cut instance of how someone was scammed all they have to do is say from now on this is or is not allowed. You will or will not be banned for doing this in the future.

Support the community and set forth clear rules. I don't see anyone arguing against that.

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OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

Support the community and set forth clear rules. I don't see anyone arguing against that.

Do you think we can stop car accidents ? No unless we stop using a car.
What if with completely automated driving system ? That is not what we calling it a car anymore.

Automated rules...? Robo cops...?

Edit: nah, that was wrong direction. I think we can make something that can avoid some part of the damage.

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Miská wrote:

I suggest you follow your own advice. Nobody is talking about trading through a tradewindow. I thought that was obvious. There are plenty of examples that you would know if you would actually play this game. Atziri service/master service and ofcourse the league specific cadiro mess we have right now.

umm... those trades are... done through the trade window. your point fails.

"

OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

the community doesn't have the tools to police itself. Some might even argue with the policies GGG has in place that they are being detrimental in our efforts to police ourselves.

While that policy has no doubt impaired our ability to police ourselves, we don't need GGG to do an efficient job. Casually ostracizing offenders is more than sufficient stick.

"

OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

A website could help where people vouch and or tattle (for lack of a better word). But who wants to check that before every rotation?

It would be important to make the lookup process user friendly, ex: whisper player, select chat box, copy, paste into website (so website should be tolerant of @ character in front of name, etc). All that could be done in 2 seconds with light practice.

"

OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

"

There is no way to make something like that secure in any game. You always run the inherent risk of the guy skipping off with the money or simply not paying. The solution to that is obvious: Stop being a lazy cunt and do it yourself.

I think you are being very narrow sighted here. Let me try to make it more clear. Lets say I have a SRS build and want to make a +3 fire staff. That requires 3 masters to be level 8. Now yes I could level three masters to level 8 many people have done it, but here is the thing. If I wait until I have all three masters level 8 I am basically gimping my character every day until I get them leveled. I am worse off in maps, not as helpful in parties, not as good at magic finding, heck not even as good at leveling masters. But if I could level say 2 masters and then count on the help of a friend who leveled the third then I would achieve my +3 fire staff much sooner and thus be successful much sooner. It's not a matter of

"

being a lazy cunt

it's a matter of time. A group of people can accomplish much more together than each can individually.

Indeed. Get your friends to play PoE. That's what I did. Seems to work just fine.
Or trust some stranger in Global with your currency, hoping he doesn't screw you over.

Seems to work a lot better when you know the other person can't screw you over. That's why the trade window works the way it does. There is no way to implement this for a "service" without an entirely new function being developed just for it.

Even then, for what? So you can get loot off someone else's effort? In a game that's advertised to be challenging and hard?

"

OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

You also say there is no way to make it secure. I disagree the first step to making it somewhat secure is saying clearly and in no vague terms like: we could or we might but instead we will try our hardest to ban scammers for going back on a deal. That is what I think most people want in this thread. Clarity on where GGG stands, not this wishy washy case by case stance. Yes I know GGG can't imagine every way that we will try and scam each other. But here they have a clear cut instance of how someone was scammed all they have to do is say from now on this is or is not allowed. You will or will not be banned for doing this in the future.

Support the community and set forth clear rules. I don't see anyone arguing against that.

CCP tried this. Eventually, one of their higher-ups responded with something along the lines of "We won't publicize the details because people will skate on the line while not crossing it, effectively evading the consequences as closely as possible". I would rather not have to deal with that here.

I want scammers. I don't want to play a game where everyone's an upstanding gentleman and model member of the community. I want crafty, clever assholes who evade and bend the rules. That's how progression is made.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

I suggest you follow your own advice. Nobody is talking about trading through a tradewindow. I thought that was obvious. There are plenty of examples that you would know if you would actually play this game. Atziri service/master service and ofcourse the league specific cadiro mess we have right now.

umm... those trades are... done through the trade window. your point fails.

Do you even play this game?

"

Miská wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

I suggest you follow your own advice. Nobody is talking about trading through a tradewindow. I thought that was obvious. There are plenty of examples that you would know if you would actually play this game. Atziri service/master service and ofcourse the league specific cadiro mess we have right now.

umm... those trades are... done through the trade window. your point fails.

Do you even play this game?

Do you?
You're trying to defend buying runs for optional content.

"

casval776 wrote:

Do you?
You're trying to defend buying runs for optional content.

Your comprehensive skills are outstanding once again.

"

Miská wrote:

I use sarcasm to dodge the responsibility of defending my opinions.

Sorry, kiddo.
You got boring.

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casval776 wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

I use sarcasm to dodge the responsibility of defending my opinions.

Sorry, kiddo.
You got boring.

Where exactly did i defend buying services? Hence your poor comprehension skills. You litterally just make up something and reply as if the person you are speaking to said such things.

The 'kiddo' thing pretty much says it all though. Usually people are pretty desperate when they resort to petty insults.