List your AH fears

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grant_m wrote:

As a result of the AH being there, the game itself would require changes which would eventually make AH use a requirement rather than a choice.

Path of AH flipping and RMT is the result.

That type of 'player' would overtake PoE to the point where a real ARPG would cease to exist.

The AH will never happen. At least not as long as GGG cares about this game.

It has happened already, you're blind if you deny that. poe.trade is basically your AH, it's just very inconvenient to use, but it's there.
It happens eventually with every online game that has some form of trading. The only way to stop it is to remove ability to trade from the game.

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grant_m wrote:

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DemonikPath wrote:

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grant_m wrote:

As a result of the AH being there, the game itself would require changes which would eventually make AH use a requirement rather than a choice.

Path of AH flipping and RMT is the result.

That type of 'player' would overtake PoE to the point where a real ARPG would cease to exist.

The AH will never happen. At least not as long as GGG cares about this game.

It has happened already, you're blind if you deny that. poe.trade is basically your AH, it's just very inconvenient to use, but it's there.

The inconvenience of it is the exact thing that makes it a good implementation.

No it's not. It's just makes it inconvenient. How the trading works right now is quite decent, but the inconvenience is what makes it bad.
Trading is a core part of the game right now and making it require using 3rd party tools is just a bad practice.
I've shown above how it can be made convenient and at the same time it will remain exactly the same as now. Just wouldn't require 3rd party tools, which is good. I might've missed something, but that was just a suggestion.

I've often mentioned it often, but I'd really like to see something like being able to trade cross-instance. Sure, it kinda break the immersion of trading in person, but having to trade with someone who's mapping with friends is really annoying.

And I don't want an AH because the way it currently works, you can sometimes get good deals from people who want need currency quickly, so they sell some things cheap. Or you can sell to someone who really wants an item, so he'll pay extra $$$ to get it now.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

I think that having to leave what you're doing to deal with a trade is too intrusive to make it worth doing.

That summs it up for me. In contrary to your opinion I don't think its a negativ effect though.
Let's face it, the bottom line of pricing right now makes items more valuable, because you sell the item including your time. This ofc got a psoitive effect for the seller, but also from a buyers perspective I don't want to get my Wanderlust when starting for 3 Scrolls. I don't think pushing the price bottom line further to the vendor price will benefit the game experience for me. With a direct trading system, which doesn't even require you to be online drop rates would maybe have to decrease to countereffect this.

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flipser wrote:

That summs it up for me. In contrary to your opinion I don't think its a negativ effect though. Let's face it, the bottom line of pricing right now makes items more valuable, because you sell the item including your time. This ofc got a psoitive effect for the seller, but also from a buyers perspective I don't want to get my Wanderlust when starting for 3 Scrolls. I don't think pushing the price bottom line further to the vendor price will benefit the game experience for me. With a direct trading system, which doesn't even require you to be online drop rates would maybe have to decrease to countereffect this.

Have you ever stopped to consider how many players don't contribute currency to economeh because the trade system is awful, and whether that would be likely to offset the increased availability of items in a better-facilitated model?

Food for thought. Systems are generally far more complex than our simple abstractions of them.

I think it boils down to implementing an easier trading system in the game, be it AH or personal shops or something. GGG will be in the best place to decide that. For us players, we need to recognize that the game needs to improve on this aspect. The game needs to keep up with the times to remain competitive in the coming years.

With an easier way to trade, we can attract more players and retain them. Makes for a more populated game, more supporters and more content in the end. Win win in my opinion.

bots....

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flipser wrote:

- The most effective way to earn currency will narrow down to playing the AH.

As opposed to - The most effective way to earn currency narrows down to playing poe.trade - currently.

And as opposed to - The most effective way to earn currency narrowed down to playing the forum trade threads - prior to poe.trade/xyz.


It's a global, full, free trade system with no restrictions, the most effective way to earn currency was narrowed down to playing the least resistant available trading interface from day 1, whatever it may be.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Have you ever stopped to consider how many players don't contribute currency to economeh because the trade system is awful, and whether that would be likely to offset the increased availability of items in a better-facilitated model?

Food for thought. Systems are generally far more complex than our simple abstractions of them.

I'd like to also remind you of the real economy, the one where players pay GGG. Ironically, the game basically exists today because of an AH. Another game's implementation was so disastrous that millions went looking for another game. A subset with very specific desires came here. An AH will make some percentage very happy, but some will just get up and go and those are likely to be closed beta and open beta supporters.

On your comment I would say the participants break down from smallest percentages to largest like this:
1. Self found but would trade if there was an AH
2. Self found and will be no matter what
3. People who buy but don't set up shops but would if there was an AH
4. People who trade regularly no matter what

I don't even think there is a group who sells but doesn't buy. I THINK the smallest population are people who are totally self found today but would flip and use an AH. The people in your example (would be buyers) will likely be overcome by an exponential factor by (would be sellers).

Whether you like the change or not, look at that the 4x drop rate did to T1 item values. Imagine a world where everyone is selling their Tabula Rasa, boots with movement speed/life/resist, white leather belts, etc. It really won't take long at all for the AH to be a place where you twink out leveling characters for pennies. All the people who are very happy to have the trade interface of their dreams will quickly become disappointed when nothing they have is worth selling.