List your AH fears

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You can always count on I_NO to sloganize the popular stupid.

Now THAT is worth quoting.

Unfortunately, my experience is that people who don't want easier trading (let's ignore the 'AH' acronym, it's often not the point of such requests and it just gets people all knotted in the panty region) are basically religious fanatics. You're unlikely to convince them of how dumb their beliefs are. As I read somewhere, it's a bit like "trying to pound sand down a rathole".

No fear because an auction house feature is one of the 2-3 things this game is missing before i could actually consider it no longer a beta test. The others being an actual fix to the chronic latency issues and some form of ingame damage meter.

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1453R wrote:

So I suppose my question is this: how would the Wonder Bazaar players solve the issue of trading being fisking impossible for the Average Joe? You folks are all bent on protecting your profits and ‘avoiding market saturation’ by ensuring that no one is actually able to properly enter the market, but does that really sound fair?

“If everyone who had one of these things tried to sell it they wouldn’t be worth anything, so we’re going to set up an opaque, difficult-to-parse system overwhelmingly biased in favor of established sellers that forces nine out of ten players to give up in frustration, so the one remaining guy can make all the profits. Huzzah player trading!”

Yeah. Is there any wonder people want some sort of tools or systems, in the actual game, that might actually allow them to, y’know…trade items? Instead of a select handful of long-established players collecting all the currency and hoarding up wealth like Wraeclastian Rockefellers?

So spot on! Well said :)

Just make a limit on how many items, u can have up at the AH at once, like 10-20.

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flipser wrote:

After playing couple of games with an AH I noticed the following facts, which I disliked and fear for them to reoccur, if PoE establishes and AH:

- Meta Items, used in promoted builds will get very expensive, because flipping is made easy.
-> New players can't play the buid of the week, for example.
-> I will have to invest more, when trying out some popular builds.

-Useful leveling Items will get very cheap and very hard to sell because of the huge supply.
-> I earn quite some chaos, selling leveling items like Goldrims or Wanderlust. The items are great and have a huge value to the levelling player, no need to get them for "free" (even though, if I see its a new player i often gifted them, but that's another story and part of socialization).

- The most effective way to earn currency will narrow down to playing the AH.
-> The span between the average player, seeking joy in the game and the guys playing Wallstreet in terms of networth will increase.
-> I will spend more and more time on the AH and less playing the game.

- External software for efficent AH scanning will get more demand.
-> New rules in terms of 3rd party software influencing the game directly will have to be set up by GGG, looking at current terms regarding Macros, I don't think the terms will be clear within reasonable time (who can tell me if a macro'd key to use and ID scroll is legal?)
-> Scanning Software such as Auctioneer in WoW for example where often subject to scams, tojans, etc.
-> Established Databases were traded for real Money (WoW, D3), because they are the key to effectively scanning and trending items.

- The socialization will decrease.
-> I like to haggle.
-> I like to think about builds that my trade partner might be playing after she/ he purchased a specific item or jewel. Sometimes we start chatting. One of my former customers is a mapping friend to me nowadays.
-> I like to show off my hideout.

-Where will the items be stored, which you want to sell? In the AH itsself?
-> GGG will earn less money from stash tab sales (all my donations went towards tab for now). -> less money for the server

Please do not establish a typical WoW-style AH. Thank you.

1: they cant now how will it be any diff
2: every junk (useful to you) lvling item is cheap and there are 1000s of them (we just npc them now..)
3: already this way sorry to break it to you
4: theres already alot of these tools as is who even uses this junk
5: most people who are solo fund will like this who cares about the others Kappa
6: guessing yes and it would most likely cost to set an item for sale

Solutions, taking inspiration from game lore...?


1) Enforce Scarcity -

+How many items would actually exist in Wraeclast?
+How much wealth could actually be accumulated by one exile?


2) Thaumaturgical Law of Equivalent Exchange -

+Items and currency involved on both sides of a transaction are bound to an account (or a pre-declared small cluster of accounts) for a (lengthy) amount of time.
+To be traded again, the Beast essence needs to be cleaned off.

3) Profit

+Only what you take with you?
+No one gets out alive?

Without controlling the supply side (via item sinks that act as a negative feedback loop for prices and/or limiting how many items players can list), any kind of trading automatization (included AH) is going to be disastrous. Fuck supply side saturation.

I don't care what system they decide to implement down the road as long as we get something better than what we have. There are dozens of trade channels that are spammed with random unorganized merchandise. We need specific channels for specific things imo and they should be obvious. I messed around with poexyz for a bit last league but lost interest. Honestly the system sucks for 75% of the players who do not know how to use it effectively. I hate trading in this game.

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flipser wrote:

- Meta Items, used in promoted builds will get very expensive, because flipping is made easy.
-> New players can't play the buid of the week, for example.
-> I will have to invest more, when trying out some popular builds.

- Useful leveling Items will get very cheap and very hard to sell because of the huge supply.
-> I earn quite some chaos, selling leveling items like Goldrims or Wanderlust. The items are great and have a huge value to the levelling player, no need to get them for "free" (even though, if I see its a new player i often gifted them, but that's another story and part of socialization).

Now that's not true at all. You're comparing with games that have no real currency sink. Really expensive items will have the same cost, because there very few of them, most 1-2 on poe.trade. "Meta" items will only get more expensive for a few days while everyone is trying it. And new players do not play promoted builds, those are mostly targeted at experienced players.
If anything it will make life for new players easier, because you can easily see which stats are valuable. And it's a good thing if leveling items will become cheaper and more accessible, this game is already hostile enough to new players.

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flipser wrote:

- The most effective way to earn currency will narrow down to playing the AH.
-> The span between the average player, seeking joy in the game and the guys playing Wallstreet in terms of networth will increase.
-> I will spend more and more time on the AH and less playing the game.

It is already, always was and will always be. You can't circumvent that without completely removing trading from the game like D3 did. It will make trading more accessible, because most people do not want to bother using 3rd party software to trade, which is a good thing.

"

flipser wrote:

- External software for efficent AH scanning will get more demand.
-> New rules in terms of 3rd party software influencing the game directly will have to be set up by GGG, looking at current terms regarding Macros, I don't think the terms will be clear within reasonable time (who can tell me if a macro'd key to use and ID scroll is legal?)
-> Scanning Software such as Auctioneer in WoW for example where often subject to scams, tojans, etc.
-> Established Databases were traded for real Money (WoW, D3), because they are the key to effectively scanning and trending items.

So you think it is a bad thing, but right now this software is the only thing that we have. Procurement/Acquisition, poe.trade are all 3rd party software, which means:
1. Players new to trading can be more easily scammed by fake programs
2. Those who already use them will probably see no difference (unless GGG shuts them down by making trading API closed)
3. It gives advantage to software/site owners, because they can easily set up filters that will notify them if someone sells expensive items for cheap. While they might not do that it is definetely a possibility.
There is no downside to having built-in UI here.

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flipser wrote:

- The socialization will decrease.
-> I like to haggle.
-> I like to think about builds that my trade partner might be playing after she/ he purchased a specific item or jewel. Sometimes we start chatting. One of my former customers is a mapping friend to me nowadays.
-> I like to show off my hideout.

-Where will the items be stored, which you want to sell? In the AH itsself?
-> GGG will earn less money from stash tab sales (all my donations went towards tab for now). -> less money for the server

See below my suggestion of AH implementation, that will not reduce these factors.

"

flipser wrote:

Please do not establish a typical WoW-style AH. Thank you.

WoW AH is by definition the AH in WoW and it works there, because it was designed for that game. Most of the items in WoW are bind-on-pickup, which is why it works. D3 AH received a lot of bad press, but let's be real - it wasn't AH, that destroyed the game, it's the core game design. AH was part of it, but mostly because of how poorly it was implemented and because there were no natural currency sink, which caused almost instant inflation. Removing AH didn't make it a better game, if anything it made it much worse, right now it's unplayable mess.

So to my suggestion. Here is how I think it can be implemented:
1. Add a trading post where you can list items from your stash. 3 listing options: "no b/o price", "b/o price, accepting offers", "non-negotiable b/o price" + 2 options for offers visibility - "visible to everyone", " visible to owner".
2. After you posted item you can see it highlighted in your stash. If you remove it from stash it will be delisted.
3. Another option on trading post - see listed items and filter them.
4. If you found what you want - you might place an offer (something from your stash) or accept b/o price (depending on listing type).
5. Same applies to offer - it's highlighted in your stash and your offer is removed if you remove items from stash.
6. After 30 second player who posted item can see offer (so that there is time to remove offer if you missclick).
7. Player can accept or decline offer. Accepting another offer automatically declines other offers.
8. Player who made offer can see if his offer was accepted or declined.
9. Third thing in trading post - currency exchange. You can post your currency for exchange and set your exchange rate, or search for posted exchange rates and quantity from different players. It is only informational - you need to trade manually, but it's way better than spamming trade chat.

Then if offer was accepted - both players will get notification when they are both online and they just manually trade. If it was declined - you can make a new offer. If there were no offers for a few days or no offers were accepted/declined - posting expires. It's not that much different from the current system, just implemented in-game, so it keeps social aspects of current trading and stash tabs will still be required to keep items.

Also it might have an API which can query listed items with some filters, which allows people to implement their own filters outside of the game, but this will need some kind of listing ID, so that you can find exact item listed it in-game.