4 offcolor sockets on gloves? IMPOSSIBLE
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Letting you pay thousands of chromes to get the color combo you want trivializes chroming? Giving chromes the same treatment that jewelers and fusings got for lump sums would 'make the game a sandbox'? What you call legitimate points a sane person might call hyperbole. Then again, when I countered your "If you dont like it leave it" with an ironically petulant "I am rubber you are glue" riposte, you missed it entirely and scoffed all offended at the absurdity, so forgive me if I dont set my expectations high for the quality of this debate
Your game isnt going to be ruined and unplayable and make the world come to an end if GGG reins in unnecessary and inconsistent RNG barriers to basic core content. You survived an entire expansion of them consciously applying that philosophy to every aspect of the game and apparently you didnt even notice. I don't think it will curse you with a burden greater than ten old testament plagues if GGG decides next month that a vaal axe shouldnt take 16,100,000 chromes to 6B 10% of the time Last edited by clan_iraq#5416 on Aug 5, 2015, 2:42:49 PM
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is it just me or are they not that hard or expensive? got lucky I guess, probably used less than 1200 chroms for all 3 Dark_Chicken - lvl 100 Marauder
Divine_Chicken - lvl 100 Duelist |
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" Haha, while I appreciate the value of rhetoric and hyperbole, when hyperbole is used for an entire argument - see your posts - the impact of the hyperbole is lost, and it simply weakens an argument. Your abrasive tone is a shame, because you present some valid points. When I say that there are other games that may suit you better, I don't mean it in the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" manner, I mean it in the "you should do something you enjoy with your free time" manner. Unless they changed the chances of rolling off-colours, as I have previously explained, the Vorici cost for specific colour selection would be astronomical to offset the RNG bypass, given the 25-30% additional "guarantee" offset that is implemented. I understand your view - I simply disagree with it. At no point did I express that the sky was falling. I justified why I think it should stay as it is, and you disagreed. You present valid points, but in the end, this matter is based on opinion. I have my doubts that there is any real value to this debate for either of us - it seems we both have ideas of what is fun to us and the mechanics required to feed into that enjoyment, and they happen to differ. That isn't about to change, so we might as well agree to disagree. Again, I understand your opinion, I understand why you and others would prefer it - I, however, prefer it the way it is. If it changes, I'll still probably enjoy the game, however, it will have lost an aspect that I enjoyed. Last edited by Funkdubious#2108 on Aug 5, 2015, 3:05:05 PM
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The parrallel with jewellers/fusings is wrong. There is no solution to the problem of linking, other than not doing it. I don't have a 6L because it's too expensive for me, but my alternative is no 6L, that's it.
However, with chromatics, you have en alternative, you simply have to either use the correct base item for the colors you need or you can change the colors you need by using other skills/supports. It's only a real problem when you want to off color a unique, like put your 5/6L caster based on a lightning coil but this setup is a luxury setup, so it's expensive to do and it's ok. Don't try to roll 4 red on pure ES gloves, just take ar/Es gloves, and consider the base type as a stat in itself. If it's more life, more resists, but evasion and not ar/something when you need 4R, then it's not an upgrade. |
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" Why take this as a given? Theres no prohibition that says GGG cant put an upper cap on the cost of chroming and bring the astronomical values down. They have already given precedent for that with the existing "Three green sockets" family of crafting, which can quite directly reduce the average cost of chroming, sometimes by orders of magnitude. If they restricted themselves to just carrying the existing costs to a lower risk for a % premium over average, those options would either not exist or not apply to certain bases or cost hundreds of thousands of chromes a pop. Its not going to lower your property value when a guy wielding a big blue vaal axe moves in next door for only 2000 chromes instead of 20 million. Its not going to detract from your game experience in any way. Its going to hedge against punishing RNG for some and open up new feasible build options for other and be ignored entirely by most. How does this wound you? What aspect of the game have you lost? |
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" If being expensive makes it okay, whats your objection to a large lump sum payment in line with the jewelers/fusings existing options? Thats the crux of the argument, you can't ignore one half to use the other as an excuse. 350 jewelers is expensive. 1500 fuses is expensive. 1500 chromes is expensive. Nobody is talking about trivializing chromes and removing them as a currency sink and making it cost a dozen to 6 off color a coil. Whats being discussed is giving the same option for chromes as for jewelers / fusings, whixh isnt trivial. Right now you have something like 720 average fuse with 720 std dev as one option, or 1500 fuse with 0 std dev as another option. Actual odds might differ as GGG loves their obfuscation, but you get the point. But for chromes, you only get the former, not the latter. You might get a discount due to vorici options, but only proportionally less, the RNG is just as harsh Last edited by clan_iraq#5416 on Aug 5, 2015, 3:28:22 PM
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" At no point did I say this would wound me or anything so dramatic haha. I would miss the challenge of trying to shoehorn off spec gear. I feel a greater sense of reward when something is more challenging to accomplish. Hell, I don't even really play standard, so regardless of my items losing value over there, it doesn't really matter to me, as I'm not an economy player. The issue for me is loss of character identity and the commitment to making something work. While this isn't by any stretch trying to 6B a Vaal Axe, I know I would have gotten less satisfaction paying a flat cost to BBBRG Greed`s Embrace for my Ball Lightning Totem. I could have bought a Carcass Jack and rolled BBBRG in no time, but I wanted an off-spec MF build enabling chest. I knew I would have to invest in it and get a lucky roll (and it cost a lot more than the average estimation), but to me that is part of the fun. Now, my MF witch is locked into her Ball Lightning Totem and that is a "finished character" for me. If I want a new one, I'll farm for currency and items, and then roll a new character and build it from the ground up. I get that you don't enjoy the barrier RNG makes and that it sort of locks in a character, but it is part of the game that I enjoy. It gives sense of identity to a character that went out of the way to really put in the time and effort to off colour and stuck it out through the ups and downs of RNG, not to mention that it allows for item base type to be a drawback, rather than only having stat penalties as drawbacks on items. Either way, I prefer it as it is, you want it a different way, GGG will decide when they decide, the world will keep turning. I have to get back to doing some work haha, if you have more to say, I may not respond for a while. EDIT: Out of curiosity, what figure would you put on the number of chromes for 6B on a Coil then? The average cost is 459,659 on Vorici 3B (and an astronomical 2,585,783 to do it without Vorici) So, it seems like GGG already helped you out a lot trying to off-colour items designed to be used more on dex/str characters as a caster. Last edited by Funkdubious#2108 on Aug 5, 2015, 3:46:53 PM
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And this sense of bogus sense of accomplishment, entirely rng derived- did you feel it the same for 6 linking? Did you argue at length in opposition to the FSM crafting being added? Did it kill off such a huge chunk of the game to you, that theres no identity anymore, that any ol scrub with enough currency can snap his fingers and have a 6L on demand, where oldschool players had to work hard for it? And by "work" I mean "gamble with no skill, strategy, player interaction or progression involved"? I'm sure a hundred top tier elite players quit in disgust the day master crafting was announced, letting any ol joe potatoface get triresist and life on a ring without having to yolo exalt a dozen attempts, letting these casuals farm themselves a 5L in increments instead of burning resources at random, and worse with 2.0 now they dont even have to RNG for new league skill gems or trade because GGG went full carebear mode and let you get them from vendors. Next thing you know they'll add respecs
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" +2 minion helm. What do my boots or gloves have to do with that? Vorici costs 285 chromatics to roll 3 blues. The likelihood of the final socket being green? Pretty high. So, two, three tries to get a final red socket? 570 to 855 chromatics? That is a sickening amount to me, for one single item to be usable. I have to find, pick-up, and vendor that many times. If you figure 3 seconds total a pop, that amounts to 43 minutes of looking, clicking, ctrl-clicking, and stash management interspersed between its drop frequency. I am a returning player. Vorici isn't level 6 yet, so that wasn't even an option. At level 7 he can do 2b1r for 100 chromatics, which is cheaper for the same result, gunning for a final blue instead, but it is still very expensive with a predicted cost in the hundreds. The summary of my story is I found a perfect item upgrade in its stat rolls, on a terrible base item, and the chromatic cost far outstripped my self-found currency supply, resulting in my inability to utilize the new item. This betrayed my reward-loop in a wasteful and frustrating way. I was left asking myself, "What good do colored sockets add to the game? Would the game be improved without them?" ------------------------------------------ " "If you don't like it, leave!" is a bad argument with or without context. I didn't need to bloat the quote space with your whole message that you had already re-quoted above mine. Your points could have stood without it, and they should have. " Nice straw man, but I never said anything to that effect? Gem color already dictates stat requirements, for instance. I can already swap around gems all day long for absolutely no cost, but the moment the color doesn't match I have to play the slot machine. " So I ought to exchange one reward-loop crusher for another? Your solution would be fun... how? Is this your idea of "challenges and tough decisions that need to be made regarding gearing"? Just Buy It™? " I'm so glad I have your permission. Thanks. I never would have figured out I had that option had you not presented it. Now, which ARPG is it that lets me freely attach a wide array of modifiers to my skills? Far be it that we use the Feedback and Suggestion forum to give feedback and make suggestions for a game we otherwise like, huh? |
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" Alright, this entire rant has now crossed into absurdity. Yes I did feel satisfied 6 linking without Vorici. I had spent over 10k fuses in my time playing and literally 6L'd once. Did I feel bad or whine for Vorici? Nope. I did finally 6L a Shavs (not at Vorici), and it felt good. Did I complain that now "any ol joe potatoface" (wtf?) can now spend 2k fuses and have a 6L and be done with it? Nope. I explained why I enjoy something and that I feel less enjoyment when its like filling up a progress bar rather than something more exciting, so you decide to start with accusations and overtones of me wanting to protect some kind of secret insider economy or old boys' club or some other nonsense. You were looking for an argument, not a debate. I have better things to do with my time. |
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