kill the hp node requirement

"I always feel like this entire genre was an accident, they made Diablo which got a lot of lifeless people addicted to the fact that it eats up most of their hollow existence so it became "popular", then they ran with it and completely ignored all the ridiculous and obvious design flaws that didn't seem to matter because these lifeless addicts weren't going to let design flaws pop their reality-escaping bubble."

This game and Diablo are based on Rouge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(computer_game)

Top down view, randomly created dungeons, randomly created items, and perma-death were all there. So Diablo did not start this genre, Rouge did. Also, you characterize players of this type of game as being lifeless addicted, having a hollow existence and living in a reality-escaping bubble. Really?

"

kasub wrote:

"

Oh wait it's exactly like D3, the game you all spit on for having these problems. I hate D3 for the AH, loot, corporate influence, WoW influence, and because it has the same fail design flaws that all these "arpgs" have, the design flaws PoE hasn't fixed either.

I read until here. Guess you haven't played D3 recently. Almost everyone now does all out DPS characters since inferno was completely nerfed till it became extremely easy. Monster power was introduced for anyone to get any kind of challenge(with damage being 2+ times as high and HP from twice to 40 times as high).

Anyways your post is really confusing. How is it a flaw of arpgs that health/resistances are needed to survive?.. That's kind of their purpose to increase survivability. You need a balance of defense and offense if you want to do well. If you plan to tank as a melee and hit enemies headon then yes you'll need even more HP.. that's kind of the point of facing enemies headon(yes I know melee has problems but this will always be true.. even when they're buffed).

its not a problem of being a glass cannon or being a tank its a problem of being a tank and forced into one build, you think i can afford to be a crit ranger when all my points are allocated the other way? so im being forced into a build.

moreover, this is going to happen to everyone who doesn't stack hp + resist + defensive nodes to account for 60-70% (not including fodder points) just to not get face rolled in merciless, its not balanced if i have no other choice but to pick a build that 97%+ of other characters are using.

Regardless of ES, 1200 / 1900 (buffed) and can attack in the middle of a pack... so If was health 3k health very doable. Im sitting next to 7 health nodes I never taken. It's about balance and how you play the game.

Ok then, if you're so hardcore, play on HC without a single HP or ES passive. Build pure DPS, only take damage nodes and tell me how that works out for you.

My first build in closed beta did just that and could play on cruel and reckless back then with little problem.

Now I tried the same build in OB, and as Soon as I got to act 1 cruel I couldn't survive a single hit, and with that you can't even kill anything or level up.

The current game is IMPOSSIBLE to play on pure DPS builds, yet every pathetic pure HP tank scrub build can still mow through the entire game killing everything with ease without any DPS passives.

"

bhavv wrote:

Ok then, if you're so hardcore, play on HC without a single HP or ES passive. Build pure DPS, only take damage nodes and tell me how that works out for you.

My first build in closed beta did just that and could play on cruel and reckless back then with little problem.

Now I tried the same build in OB, and as Soon as I got to act 1 cruel I couldn't survive a single hit, and with that you can't even kill anything or level up.

The current game is IMPOSSIBLE to play on pure DPS builds, yet every pathetic pure HP tank scrub build can still mow through the entire game killing everything with ease without any DPS passives.

I played purely DPS till merc but because solo there was no way would have got past vaal and needed balance.

So . . . hopefully you're talking about HC builds here. I'm playing a melee-ish templar about to wrap up cruel and I have no +health nodes and I do pretty well.

I do die quickly from desync from time to time if it decides to strand me in the middle of a pack of mobs despite me having shield charged two screens away on my client.

"

schisist wrote:

I always feel like this entire genre was an accident, they made Diablo which got a lot of lifeless people addicted to the fact that it eats up most of their hollow existence so it became "popular", then they ran with it and completely ignored all the ridiculous and obvious design flaws that didn't seem to matter because these lifeless addicts weren't going to let design flaws pop their reality-escaping bubble.

Your logic is so overwhelmingly through the roof there really is no more point to discussion. End the thread, hell just end the game development.

If you ever find that game--or any concept in life--devoid of flaws or a community willing to overlook them in favor of just appreciating what it has to offer please let me know.

Dying to know.

"

kasub wrote:

"

Oh wait it's exactly like D3, the game you all spit on for having these problems. I hate D3 for the AH, loot, corporate influence, WoW influence, and because it has the same fail design flaws that all these "arpgs" have, the design flaws PoE hasn't fixed either.

I read until here. Guess you haven't played D3 recently. Almost everyone now does all out DPS characters since inferno was completely nerfed till it became extremely easy. Monster power was introduced for anyone to get any kind of challenge(with damage being 2+ times as high and HP from twice to 40 times as high).

Anyways your post is really confusing. How is it a flaw of arpgs that health/resistances are needed to survive?.. That's kind of their purpose to increase survivability. You need a balance of defense and offense if you want to do well. If you plan to tank as a melee and hit enemies headon then yes you'll need even more HP.. that's kind of the point of facing enemies headon(yes I know melee has problems but this will always be true.. even when they're buffed).

My mistake on the D3 comment, i should have clarified; I bought D3 on release and the problem i mentioned was a part of the reason i got a refund 2 weeks later.

Survivability being necessary is fine, but to the extent of needing this much of it just to stand in melee range for more than 3 seconds and only against certain kinds of monster? Why does it have to be all the way to this end of the extremes? Because of the design of the genre, which i see as a flaw that could have been fixed and still can be.

"

Percopius wrote:

"I always feel like this entire genre was an accident, they made Diablo which got a lot of lifeless people addicted to the fact that it eats up most of their hollow existence so it became "popular", then they ran with it and completely ignored all the ridiculous and obvious design flaws that didn't seem to matter because these lifeless addicts weren't going to let design flaws pop their reality-escaping bubble."

This game and Diablo are based on Rouge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(computer_game)

Top down view, randomly created dungeons, randomly created items, and perma-death were all there. So Diablo did not start this genre, Rouge did. Also, you characterize players of this type of game as being lifeless addicted, having a hollow existence and living in a reality-escaping bubble. Really?

Not all of them, a minority, but those are the ridiculously hardcore that kept this strange genre afloat.


And i think it is perfectly fair to relate someones intense interest to a probable character trait or mental mindset.

Like the hardcore creatures in WoW who live in their bedrooms.

Tell me how awesome glass-cannon builds were in D2...

Specially at the beginning of the ladders, selffound.

Have you ever tried to run around in Hell withot resistances and anykind of defensive strategy? You died, over and over again.
Lost your money and your gold (the latter didnt really matter).
People just forgot that, because at a certain point in the ladder the items started flowing and the monsters started to fall down in legions.

Someone made a comparison to MOBA's - it's actually pretty accurate. Have you ever watched a LoL / Dota Match?
Yes, those Ezreals and Vipers are dishing out tons of damage... until they get 2 shoted by the opposite Le Blanc / Nyx.

You can't expect a one-sided strategy (e.g. Rock) to be used in every situation. Your rock will meet a paper somewhere.

PS:
Stop bringing up Chaos Damage in these discussions. Everyone knows the current situation is fucked up and it makes no sense to apply the same penalty on Chaos while only providing maybe 1/4 of the possiblities to defend yourself compared to elemental resistances.
This has to be discussed in a separat discussion.

And i think alot of the "omg i get onshot" complaints would seize to exist, if they'd revert the Chaos Resistance change back to the way it was in the Closed Beta.