kill the hp node requirement

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kasub wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

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kasub wrote:

There is such a thing as balance. Many people are playing hardcore so yes HP will take priority...

Even if 50% of their large nodes are HP that must mean the other 50% is in something else.That something else is important.

But the FAQ on this website says I can build pure DPS if I want to, but in the current came I cant.

I don't see anything stopping you.

It can even be viable to do a mostly DPS oriented build... you still need some form of HP(or ES) if you plan to not die on reflect/arc/desync/strong projectile.

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jamnik_pucek wrote:

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Auvic wrote:

So because #3 is the one that people seem to be referencing, lemme break it down even more.
Use of the word "could" suggests that something CAN be done, not that it SHOULD be done.
-> CAN you build straight tank? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.
-> CAN you build straight glass cannon? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.

So you are suggesting GGG is trolling their prospective players by putting that in the FAQ? Really?

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Auvic wrote:

I'm polite enough to look things up for everyone, so here:

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While we don't have concrete defined roles for any class, there's enough customization with passive and active skills that a player can focus on one type of play. A Marauder, for example, can load up on hit point buffing skills and taunts, and a Ranger could focus purely on offensive skills. We do not intend to have a dedicated healer role.

1. There's no defined roles. That's the most important part of bullet point 11 in the FAQ.
2. There is quite a lot of possible customization between active/passive skills.
3. Marauders CAN tank up, Rangers CAN go straight glass cannon.
4. There is no dedicated healer.

So because #3 is the one that people seem to be referencing, lemme break it down even more.
Use of the word "could" suggests that something CAN be done, not that it SHOULD be done.
-> CAN you build straight tank? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.
-> CAN you build straight glass cannon? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.

There's plenty of possibilities, and plenty of playstyles.
The only person that says "I should be able to build how I want and be JUSTas viable as the next guy" is you. There's good builds and there's bad builds. Having lots of variety means that there's plenty of ways for you to fuck yourself up.

And guess what? That's nobody's fault but your own.
'Cause, y'know, one of the main draws to ARPGs is the experimentation bit. What experimentation is there if/when ever build is equally viable, performs roughly the same, and can essentially survive by doing nothing but killing things, slapping points in at random, and killing more things? That's right, there is none.

Complain about your build sucking a bit less, kthx.
If you've fucked up your character, your build, your setup, your gear - drink your tears and reroll like the rest of us did/will continue to do.

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lord_vital wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

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lord_vital wrote:

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

OFC it should be because the devs have already said it should be.

Again, on this website, click on game > FAQ > bullet point 11. Go and read that first and tell me what it says.

I don't want to hear what the dev says in a FAQ bulletin, i want to your reasoning behind this statement. Besides there is nothing interesting in that point 11. If i would like to go all white gear and call it a end game build nothing can stop me. That's what basically the point states. Will this simple fact make it end game build? Sure, why not! Will it be effective? No.

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bhavv wrote:

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lord_vital wrote:

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

OFC it should be because the devs have already said it should be.

Again, on this website, click on game > FAQ > bullet point 11. Go and read that first and tell me what it says.

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Bones40 wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

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lord_vital wrote:

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

OFC it should be because the devs have already said it should be.

Again, on this website, click on game > FAQ > bullet point 11. Go and read that first and tell me what it says.

Really? Why would anyone build anything other than a glass cannon build? Why would anyone take defensive nodes at all if you could just clear mobs 10 times faster without dying? It's absolutely ridiculous to assume that you should be able to play a character through the end game while investing NOTHING in defensive or HP passives. It's ludicrous. There would be no reason to do anything else.

As the game is now, the easiest and least creative way to build a character is to stack HP and armor. Your farming efficiency suffers, though, if you do this and at end game...that's basically all the matters. If you go glass cannon, you kill things faster but dying too often reduces your farming efficiency to unacceptable levels. The key is to use your brain and the tools GGG provides (skills, passives, gear, tactics etc.) to farm as efficiently as possible. To be able to have an acceptable kill speed paired with acceptable survivability.

As soon as you make it viable to face roll everything with absolutely no thought to defense or life (and believe me, a viable glass cannon will face roll EVERYTHING because of the massive DPS it can have without investing anything in defense), it becomes the most efficient farmer without question. There would be no reason to build anything else.

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bhavv wrote:

I've already given all the possible reasoning I can, you are just choosing to ignore it.

To put it simply, if I can't make a pure DPS character that can survive from gear alone, then you shouldn't be able to make a pure tank that can kill things by relying on your gear.

The fact is that you can completely neglect every DPS node on the skill tree and still beat the game and kill everything. I cannot neglect survival and survive.

That right there is a clear as rain example of how biased and unbalanced this game is in favor of stacking HP builds. If you expect that I shouldn't be able to survive without defensive passives, then I expect that you shouldn't be able to kill anything without DPS passives.

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lord_vital wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

I've already given all the possible reasoning I can, you are just choosing to ignore it.

To put it simply, if I can't make a pure DPS character that can survive from gear alone, then you shouldn't be able to make a pure tank that can kill things by relying on your gear.

The fact is that you can completely neglect every DPS node on the skill tree and still beat the game and kill everything. I cannot neglect survival and survive.

That right there is a clear as rain example of how biased and unbalanced this game is in favor of stacking HP builds. If you expect that I shouldn't be able to survive without defensive passives, then I expect that you shouldn't be able to kill anything without DPS passives.

I am not ignoring your reasoning, quite the opposite, i try to delve into the psychology behind it. You completely want to ditch survivability, but you want that not to affect your character? Is that the main reasoning? But why you don't take difficulty into account? Yes i know you stated mobs are too strong etc., i don't talk about that - it's still beta, dmg values will probably change. I talk about the simple fundamental fact the the more you progress the more the need for the defensive skills/stats will raise. Isn't that a normal thing?

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deteego wrote:

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lord_vital wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

I've already given all the possible reasoning I can, you are just choosing to ignore it.

To put it simply, if I can't make a pure DPS character that can survive from gear alone, then you shouldn't be able to make a pure tank that can kill things by relying on your gear.

The fact is that you can completely neglect every DPS node on the skill tree and still beat the game and kill everything. I cannot neglect survival and survive.

That right there is a clear as rain example of how biased and unbalanced this game is in favor of stacking HP builds. If you expect that I shouldn't be able to survive without defensive passives, then I expect that you shouldn't be able to kill anything without DPS passives.

I am not ignoring your reasoning, quite the opposite, i try to delve into the psychology behind it. You completely want to ditch survivability, but you want that not to affect your character? Is that the main reasoning? But why you don't take difficulty into account? Yes i know you stated mobs are too strong etc., i don't talk about that - it's still beta, dmg values will probably change. I talk about the simple fundamental fact the the more you progress the more the need for the defensive skills/stats will raise. Isn't that a normal thing?

The point being made which you are tip toing about is that pure DPS is not viable in end game, and that pure tank is (in fact, the only viable way to play currently is pure tank + ranged abilities)

Ideally if the game is properly balanced, a pure tank would have as many issues in merciless (because they are ditching damage) just as much as a pure glass cannon would have in merciless (because they are ditching survivability)

I think the thing is, it shouldn't be a requirement that you need to build a tank to progress, it currently is. And in any case, its much more of a requirement to build tanky than it is to build damage (for any character in general). There is a reason why the most succesful people on the current ladder are basically all marauders/templars (easy access to defense nodes)