kill the hp node requirement

"

bhavv wrote:

Not this again. I've already addressed this in the other thread. GGG are currently only working around making melee viable WITH stacking HP nodes. They are not doing anything to fix the issue of being able to win the game and be able to play the end game without maxing your HP.

My glass cannon templar is not a melee first of all. He is a cold grit caster with no HP nodes because he will be taking CI. He has all the ice magic and aoe keystones near the witch area, but he can't kill anything in cruel difficulty with Ice Nova without dropping dead from just one or two hits.

The same and only issue that's making melee unfun for my shadow is the over reliance on HP. There's absolutely nothing wrong at all with the melee skills or pbaoe skill, the issue is that melee and pbaoe cannot survive because you are too close to the enemies.

well first if you don't even have the wherewithal to know im not omnipresent and cant see every argument you have posted, then that speaks volumes here.

Second if you think HP nodes are the only thing getting tweaked ill stop talking here because you obviously have no clue what your talking about.

The icing on the cake ill leave you with, new skills are being worked which will defiantly impact melee and how well they do especially cleave. Will the dev. team solve all of melee's problems with one patch? probably not however i guarantee you its more then Hp nodes...

Its pointless discussing things with people that don't even listen to what your saying.

I said that GGG are currently tweaking melee skills, but this is 100% the wrong approach they need to be taking!

The melee skills really don't need tweaking at all, they are already strong enough. The problem with melee is not the melee skills, stop reading this if you think I am complaining about the skills.

The problem with melee is that MELEES CANNOT SURVIVE without doing anything other than stacking every single HP node. Improving or adding more skills isn't going to fix the fact that the only thing that's flawed with melee is how much damage you take compared to a ranged character who can simply keep his distance and kill everything while completely safe from most enemy damage.

I dont understand how people can comprehend this, its completely obvious if you simply try playing a melee vs ranged character.

And the problem is not only unique to melee skills and character. Low HP pbaoe builds are also not working becasue they take too much more damage than ranged builds do.

"

bhavv wrote:

Its pointless discussing things with people that don't even listen to what your saying.

I said that GGG are currently tweaking melee skills, but this is 100% the wrong approach they need to be taking!

The melee skills really don't need tweaking at all, they are already strong enough. The problem with melee is not the melee skills, stop reading this if you think I am complaining aboi the skills.

The problem with melee is that MELEES CANNOT SURVIVE without doing anything other than stacking every single HP node. Improving or adding more skills isn't going to fix the fact that the only thing that's flawed with melee is how much damage you take compared to a ranged character who can simply keep his distance and kill everything while completely safe from most enemy damage.

I dont understand how people can comprehend this, its completely obvious if you simply try playing a melee vs ranged character.

And the problem is not only unique to melee skills and character. Low HP pbaoe builds are also not working becasue they take too much more damage than ranged builds do.

Yeah, the enemy damage is off the charts.

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

"

lord_vital wrote:

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

OFC it should be because the devs have already said it should be.

Again, on this website, click on game > FAQ > bullet point 11. Go and read that first and tell me what it says.

"

bhavv wrote:

Its pointless discussing things with people that don't even listen to what your saying.

I said that GGG are currently tweaking melee skills, but this is 100% the wrong approach they need to be taking!

The melee skills really don't need tweaking at all, they are already strong enough. The problem with melee is not the melee skills, stop reading this if you think I am complaining about the skills.

The problem with melee is that MELEES CANNOT SURVIVE without doing anything other than stacking every single HP node. Improving or adding more skills isn't going to fix the fact that the only thing that's flawed with melee is how much damage you take compared to a ranged character who can simply keep his distance and kill everything while completely safe from most enemy damage.

I dont understand how people can comprehend this, its completely obvious if you simply try playing a melee vs ranged character.

And the problem is not only unique to melee skills and character. Low HP pbaoe builds are also not working becasue they take too much more damage than ranged builds do.

You should have led with this and clearly stated your point, i found your original argument that i responded to, to be disjointed which lead to the confusion. However i digress, Your right it is damn hard to survive as a melee, however the skills involved as a melee are just as important as the passives and armor/evasion mechanics. Melee dose not have many viable choices for competitive end game skills, which is at least one of the problems. I don't think any rational player can sit here and say armor and evasion are fine and im damn sure GGG knows these problems if a bunch of us can identify them. You are crazy to think that GGG is trying to completely fix melee in one patch.

Fixing melee is going to take some time, testing, and tweaking. Your jumping up on this pedestal throwing out predictions, which are just that predictions. I reserve my judgment overall of a patch till at least some patch notes are present, instead of being all doom and gloom over something i have little to no control over.

I'm polite enough to look things up for everyone, so here:

"

While we don't have concrete defined roles for any class, there's enough customization with passive and active skills that a player can focus on one type of play. A Marauder, for example, can load up on hit point buffing skills and taunts, and a Ranger could focus purely on offensive skills. We do not intend to have a dedicated healer role.

1. There's no defined roles. That's the most important part of bullet point 11 in the FAQ.
2. There is quite a lot of possible customization between active/passive skills.
3. Marauders CAN tank up, Rangers CAN go straight glass cannon.
4. There is no dedicated healer.

So because #3 is the one that people seem to be referencing, lemme break it down even more.
Use of the word "could" suggests that something CAN be done, not that it SHOULD be done.
-> CAN you build straight tank? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.
-> CAN you build straight glass cannon? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.

There's plenty of possibilities, and plenty of playstyles.
The only person that says "I should be able to build how I want and be JUSTas viable as the next guy" is you. There's good builds and there's bad builds. Having lots of variety means that there's plenty of ways for you to fuck yourself up.

And guess what? That's nobody's fault but your own.
'Cause, y'know, one of the main draws to ARPGs is the experimentation bit. What experimentation is there if/when ever build is equally viable, performs roughly the same, and can essentially survive by doing nothing but killing things, slapping points in at random, and killing more things? That's right, there is none.

Complain about your build sucking a bit less, kthx.
If you've fucked up your character, your build, your setup, your gear - drink your tears and reroll like the rest of us did/will continue to do.

"

Auvic wrote:

So because #3 is the one that people seem to be referencing, lemme break it down even more.
Use of the word "could" suggests that something CAN be done, not that it SHOULD be done.
-> CAN you build straight tank? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.
-> CAN you build straight glass cannon? Yes. It'll suck, and you'll suck too.

So you are suggesting GGG is trolling their prospective players by putting that in the FAQ? Really?

All I can do is judge the game as I am playing it at the moment. My templar that neglected HP because he was going to take CI cant do anything past level 40 because he dies too fast.

My shadow maxed out on ES passives with over 2000+ melee DPS handles everything better with 200 dps bow damage, because that way he stops taking damage entirely. He has 679 HP and 729 ES too, his melee game since act 2 cruel is to hit things until the shield is down then spam flasks while running away, or swap to a bow and kill everything safely without taking much damage at all. There's absolutely nothing wrong with his dual strike, cleave and lightning strike, all of them work wonderfully, but he simply can't survive for long while trying to kill things using melee.

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bhavv wrote:

"

lord_vital wrote:

One last thing i want to know bhavv. Do you consider no investment in any kind of defensive stats/nodes (hp included) should be a viable end game solution for a build in this game? Just a brief argumented answer is all i want.

OFC it should be because the devs have already said it should be.

Again, on this website, click on game > FAQ > bullet point 11. Go and read that first and tell me what it says.

I don't want to hear what the dev says in a FAQ bulletin, i want to your reasoning behind this statement. Besides there is nothing interesting in that point 11. If i would like to go all white gear and call it a end game build nothing can stop me. That's what basically the point states. Will this simple fact make it end game build? Sure, why not! Will it be effective? No.