Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

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Crackmonster wrote:

Auras have to be nerfed sufficiently that not all builds go for maxing them out by skill tree points. It should be so that some builds designed to be aura builds gets the points, but other builds are better off focusing on their weapons, crit, attack speed or whatever.

and this is my problem with your entire argument. Not all builds go for maxing them out by skill points. You're trying to "fix" a couple builds by nerfing every build. Whatever you do to balance all those other builds is going to once again put those few builds into the OP category.

If you read the first times i wrote that, i said all good builds. See the thing is, the more you math it out, the more you realize aura points are vastly superior to anything else for the vast majority of builds.

If you don't go them that's either a l2p issue or because you simply refuse which is fair enough. Neither should be considered when balancing the game, you don't balance it around those who do it wrong.

You seem to consider it a problem that almost all builds use aura(s).

Auras are a big aspect of this game as they should be, this is nothing new and very common in many other games...

Every class has options to either somewhat or heavily spec into auras and resource management, which is great.

I seem to think it is one of the reasons that attack builds are far superior, which feeds into the lowlife issue.

You presume too much.

In think in this aura discussion it would be good to specify which auras are exactly the biggest problem. Should all auras be nerfed or are you talking mainly about the two damage auras Wrath&Anger? Ofc Grace/Determination/Discpline are good as well. But would it be still mandatory (mathematically!) to go for all aura nodes if Wrath&Anger would be changed (eg only working with elemental dmg on weapons...not flat extra dmg on every attack as they do right now)?

Crackmonster is talking about "attack builds" (what?) so I will just have to assume again he's talking about damage auras.

Now that change, to make Wrath and Anger only work with elemental damage on weapons instead of just a flat addition of elemental damage to attacks, will render the auras unusable for spell casters in general, wouldn't it? This would be not an option if you ask me.

Instead I wonder if Crackmonster's balance concern about the damage of these builds, an he's talking about builds that use ST with daggers, crit, auras, aura nodes, shavs and CoE, really comes from those auras.

Instead of OleOlof's suggestion I would say just make sure that ST doesnt scale with just any melee weapon.

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Startkabels wrote:

Now that change, to make Wrath and Anger only work with elemental damage on weapons instead of just a flat addition of elemental damage to attacks, will render the auras unusable for spell casters in general. This would be not an option if you ask me.

How could you avoid than spellcasters being left out? I think the goal should be to change Anger/Wrath in that way to leave out only pure phys based builds, so they dont get additional elemental damage for free while they have literally no spec point invested in any elemental node nor a weapon with elemental dmg on it. Also phys builds have hatred which is just fine, i guess.

I think the goal of this OP (not my goal btw) is to balance certain builds and I wouldn't do it by nerfing Wrath and Anger but by redesigning ST as mentioned above.

Auras in general might still need a bit of tuning though...

I wouldnt want to nerf Anger/Wrath as well. As mentioned a flat nerf will change/balance nothing. You only destroy a reasonable damage source for elemental builds and you will make strong phys based builds a little bit less stronger.

I would change them in that way that they dont give benefits to phys builds, but to elemental damage and maybe also spell builds. But I think Anger/Wrath never worked with spells anyway, only attacks.



As far as I understand its not only ST phys dagger which profits quite much from these dmg auras, but also power siphon or cyclone builds. Changing ST wouldnt change anything in terms of aura stacking being mandatory for a variety of other phys attack builds.

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Startkabels wrote:

I think the goal of this OP (not my goal btw) is to balance certain builds and I wouldn't do it by nerfing Wrath and Anger but by redesigning ST as mentioned above

Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

We'd all just switch to wanders or bow builds at virtually no loss in power.

The only reason we use spectral throw is that we gain Whirling Blades.

That's it. That's literally it. That's the ONLY reason why spectral throw is preferred over wand/bow builds with CoE + shavs

CoE + shav combination is broke as shit. A good friend of mine did the same build with a wander. I mapped with him tons. He's just as broken as any ST character.

The only difference is, he has to sacrifice whirling blades to use a wand. I don't think that's a big enough factor to really think that "spectral throw" is the problem -- unless you are woefully ignorant of the meta and how these builds work.

Conversely, there are plenty of spectral throw builds that don't involve CoE + shavs that are in no way broken.