I think a GGG response on Vaal Oversoul is due.
" It is worth mentioning Vaal. This thread is exclusively about Vaal. If I want attention drawn to how the Kole monster type is designed badly with the game as it is, I'll make a separate thread about that. (which I did and it got the same GGG attention as this one). More to the point, this thread is exclusively about how Vaal acts in a certain circumstance. That circumstance (and this is answering the last few posts, too) being when Vaal surfaces directly under a player (which he tries to do as much as he can) and chooses a skill, if that skill is smash (which it is more than not) and the player moves, then Vaal client side will follow the player. The problem here, is that the Vaal server side is carrying out the smash animation and attack at the position he surfaced, without any delay, in the direction of the player. While the Vaal client side will not continue the animation until he stops walking. Only if the player does not move, will the smash animation, position and damage correspond and then you will die anyway (unless you can tank a smash). If you do move, you are putting distance between yourself and an attack which is no longer (on client) at the position you need to distance yourself from. Now if that isn't a royal fuck up, I don't know what is. This is really common with map Vaal. I don't know how common it is with Act Vaal, I do that fight 3 times per character and 3 times only, usually trivialising it so mechanics are almost irrelevant. But if indeed it is less common with Act Vaal, then quite probably they don't have the exact same AI/programming and map Vaal is supposed to be more aggressive with surfacing under the player and using smash. Didn't GGG say that boss types get progressively more difficult in more than raw damage numbers as we encounter them throughout the game? What I'd like addressed, with Vaal, quite separate to desync in general is why he does this, why he has done it for so long, why it isn't seen as a gamebreaking bug, why it hasn't been fixed and why TWO of the fuckers are in the flagship expac instances. Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:06:52 PM
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" Evidently, they are not. Casually casual.
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" I'm talking about the design. The idea is good, the design and execution is terrible. Casually casual.
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For the record (not that anyone will care) this thread has not been "ignored" by GGG. It was posted at 1am on Sunday (in our timezone). It's now early afternoon Monday and I've found time to investigate the issue and compile a reply.
Like several others in the thread, I've never experienced this myself while fighting him*. Mark2 has, however, and his feedback matches what I could see happening in the video. The Oversoul emerges beside you. At this point he'll queue a slam as his next action on the server, and that will be serialised to the client. The player begins running away - this action is serialised to the server. What happens in this case that breaks things is that on the server, he finishes emerging and begins the slam while the player is still in range, before they've gotten outside where he can hit. On the client, the player gets far enough away that you're our of range before he can begin the slam, and thus he has to walk after the player to get into range to start the action. If those two events don't "cross over" like that between the client and server, this won't occur. In this particular video, the player doesn't move far, so the Oversoul does catch up and begin the slam, only for the player to be hit by the slam on the server, which was started immediately and has now finished. After the slam, you can see the Oversoul move back to it's server location because the server's told it were it should be. It is possible to do this without him emerging as well, by running into his slam range and out again before he begins a slam, but that's more difficult and is less likely to happen with regular player behaviour - this will be mostly happening with the emerge->slam because players begin moving before a slam has started on the client in that case. Some quick clarifications, about this and the oversoul in general:
So what can we do? Based on discussion with Mark2 and investigating the code, I've identified some changes we can make to his range checks which should significantly reduce the window of opportunity for this. The range check on his slam is unnecessarily small, and the range is checked against a larger limit on the server, which exacerbates the problem - both of these are holdovers from the previous AI system the boss was originally developed under, and with the new system handling some of the range, I believe we can safely extend it and keep it consistent. This will reduce the chance of the above problem occuring, while making the slam easier to avoid by running, as he won't get as close before beginning. These changes are tentatively scheduled for 1.1.5, but will need extensive testing, and may be delayed. As to why this hasn't been "fixed" earlier, this is mostly a combination of it only being experienced by some people, and this being the first detailed thread on the actual issue I've seen. So thanks to the OP for providing details and bringing the underlying problems to our attention. *To address some concerns raised earlier in the thread: I play on the same servers as you, from NZ, with a wi-fi connection to my router (a cable is infeasible in my current flat). We don't play or test on some no-latency realm. I have local servers on my own work machine for developing (because I need to run my own new server code before committing) but none of QA's testing is done in such an environment. Last edited by Rhys#0000 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:50:02 PM
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" Edit: Also Mark_GGG beat my post ^_^" Edit 2: Was the boss and client always out of sync with regards to what the boss was capable of (How close it had to be to perform an attack) or was it extended on the server at one point and not on the client (Due to forgetfulness or whatever)? Computer specifications: Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 32GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & Crucial MX 500 4TB SSD's Last edited by Nicholas_Steel#0509 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:32:47 PM
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Thanks, Mark. Very much.
My apologies for the tone but I got a bit tired of seeing this so much for so long. I'm quite sure it isn't a case of it not happening to many people, just go look at any streaming of Vaal encounters, I'd be surprised if you see a fight without it happening. I rather think it is a case of the player-base just accepted that this happens and that prevented GGG from being aware of how common it is. Anyway, thanks again and my apologies again, but it worked ;) Casually casual.
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" Really impressed by how quick you're implementing a fix after identifying the issue. I'm quite happy that something is finally being done to address desync in at least one specific case... have hopes for a bigger improvement in the expansion! If there is any updates to sync improvements that will happen by the expansion would love to hear about that. " Go as far as you can. Technically you can stand still and avoid any chance of desync but that also means you're going to get vaal smashed(no desync though!) Last edited by kasub#2910 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:33:17 PM
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" Best to constantly move away until he resyncs, movement skills like Whirling Blades would work well. @kasub The Op was correct that the Client was wrong about what the boss was capable of, but wrong when it came to exactly what action wasn't synced properly. Basically it was a oversight from the devs and the desync was caused by the client simply being wrong when it came to what the boss was doing. The fix proposed by Mark has nothing to do with general desync. Computer specifications: Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 32GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & Crucial MX 500 4TB SSD's Last edited by Nicholas_Steel#0509 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:37:08 PM
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"I always hesitate to answer questions about what's "best" because it's generally horribly subjective and differs based on a lot of factors. To prevent this desync occurring in the current game, it would be probably be best to not move until it has started the smash, then get out of the way. To avoid dying, it's probably better to run as far as you can so you're definitely outside the range of the slam on the server, and if he does follow, do a "/oos" after the time you think an immediate slam would take on the server to get him back to the correct state if he did start one there. Last edited by Rhys#0000 on Jun 22, 2014, 11:49:30 PM
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" Yeah, lol http://www.twitch.tv/theanuhart/c/3256589 Casually casual.
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