GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

It is very nice that You guys (especially Scrotie The Omniwise and LSN The Telepat) know what we SF players need, what is fun for us and what is best for us and why we vote as we vote in this thread.

I am recently quite bored of game (gearcheck stopped me again in A3 cruel, I know, noobishh) and I really think that I (as casual, solo, SF player) would like the non-trade league better. Increased drop rates would be fine (for orbs only or whatever), the most helpful will be if there is a possibility to exchange gems for other gems through vendor or something (the gems are a real problem of SF).

Anyway have a good time

And do not worry - next time we will PM to Scrotie before even starting thread - he will tell us what is our problem and your goals. If he fails, there is LSN as a second chance.

:)

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LSN wrote:

What you totally miss is, that almost all proponents WANT increased droprates. In fact we don't need to talk about that a SFL without it would not make any sense or improve the experience of getting stuck itemwise on lvl50-70.


Well you are doing the assumption that a SFL would increase the playing experience in one or the other way. You have no proof for it. I proved why it certainly would not with refering to the main aspects such a SFL would provide (that includes higher droprates).

Instead of telling me that you don't want improved droprates, you should look at all the other guys who who obviously want this in a SFL (majority). Also you could tell us, what rational reason would move GGG to make a SFL without increased droprates, besides the fact that you would like that idea and you assume others would do too.

I don't miss it. I choose to oppose it, but do it in a calmed down, non insulting way. Do you seriously think going out of your way with the overkill type of post is doing any good? Do you think GGG is a bunch of idiots? If they are, they will cater to the crowd. Those people are -always- in the majority. GGG are here to read the suggestions, and discard obviously bad ones. They've made mistakes, but that's okay, we aren't supposed to put it under their nose every day. As long as they are making positive progress (unlike "the end is near" threads want to imply, the game is Far from dead).

Getting stuck item wise depends on ones expectations, and how one approaches his expectations. Not everyone can get to level 100 and have BiS items across.

You cannot make an assumption that SFL would improve/destroy the experience of the game. The whole idea of SFL is just that, an idea, and without any real data, all we can do is assume. There is a clear difference between subjective and objective assumptions though. You cannot prove something based on a couple very basic assumptions on how SFL would look if implemented.

As for the official GGG stance on the matter, Chris publicly stated they are (most likely) not going to ever implement SFL, but they are looking into improving "self found" type of gameplay. I've posted this twice already. And this is what it is all about, really. Players have suggestions, and some suggestions stand out as widely accepted (in different forms). GGG is doing exactly what they are supposed to do - they acknowledge the players' need for something, and evaluate whether implementing the idea would be good or not, followed by possibly implementing the idea in a way they think will improve the game for everyone. Exactly what I expect from them. The whole SFL movement showed GGG there is something to improve in their game. They decided not to give in to the masses, but stated they are working on improving the game based on the general idea.

I feel honored that you think it requires telepathical powers what is just a matter of observation and common sense.



E.g. it is just observations that most SFL proponents like you in fact only want better droprates and easier success and that some others insist on "we don't want better drop rates at all and trying to base their point on it". The fact is that the big majority of SFL proponents wants better droprates.

They then still cant give any argument pro a SFL, given the fact that players now leave the game because they get stuck between lvl50 and 70 itemwise so that they cannot proceed fluently into mapping, where the better gaming experience should come from without increased droprates.


It is a sole "i would like it" argumentation without rational background about what is good or bad for the game.


@venator:

Idk again what you are talking about. SFL proponents that want increased droprates are in the marjority, yes. SFL proponents are in no way in the majority towards others who don't. The majority of average players however want increased droprates so that the game gets more suitable for them and utilize the idea of SFL in order to achieve this.

Does the majority know what is right or wrong? No they don't. Easy example is D3: Everyone was complaining about item droprates until blizzard doubled and doubles it so that the very most items became meaningless to find (which is a widely accepted mistake of blizzard).


I agree 100% that the SFL movement shows that there is lots of stuff to improve. This defenitely imo is not releasing a SFL. I could perfeclty arrange myself with having SF-accunts which can't trade or pickup anything from others. When looking closely at it without being vague, solely the aspect of doubling the numbers of leagues would not make any sense but damaging the game.

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Teridax wrote:

This thread has been dragged into a demented world of "fascism" and "ideology" "crusade and "political XXX"

Its just a Internet discussion on pixels holy shit D:

 Don't you realize that talking about our favorite arpg game features ranks right up there with politics and religion. As humans that must deal with real life stresses everyday we need an escape from the real world and for many that takes the form of a great arpg game. It's not surprising at all to me that a topic such as the SFL is being passionately debated. The many who post here are very passionate about PoE features and what to put in and what to leave out of PoE.

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They then still cant give any argument pro a SFL, given the fact that players now leave the game because they get stuck between lvl50 and 70 itemwise so that they cannot proceed fluently into mapping, where the better gaming experience should come from without increased droprates.

Well, what arguments do you need?
1) There is already quite a lot of SF players, quite a part of them would be "punny casual" single player "sociopats"
2) The SF is not easy way and till now nobody prooves (AFAIK) that there is merc dominus solo self found kill
3) The idea is just: "would it be, please, possible to give us SF players a league where we could peacefully play till the endgame (strugling, but not that strugling)". We could not compete with traders, we do not want to compete with them.

If they give us a chance to get somewhere in standard (for me it is undoable right now) - let it be, but any changes in any league will have impact also on majority of players and their wealth.

We do not want to break the fun for traders or anyway influence their game, just to have our safehaven. These "droprates" issue is just a fake theme - it would be nice to have it (for orbs and gems mainly - where orbs in SFL are just crafting material), but iot is not a main thing. The main thing is that there will be "our" place and that SF players will not look like unsuccesfull noobs (as they look in comparison with traders) anymore.

IMHO ofcourse.

And now, ooooh great LSN, please use Your gift and tell me what is really my intentions, where is a fun for me in the game and what needs to be done besides of "fake" SFL. Thank You.

It seems to me like many of the "anti-SFL" people have taken out the "they don't know what it will be like"-card, and the "they don't know what's fun"-card.

It almost seems like they believe charcters in a SFL will level faster than in a trading league. It almost seems like think a SFL charcter will reach all carrots faster than a trading character.

I've played for 2-3 years, still haven't found those three res, high life gloves. But I know I can buy them for almost nothing at XYZ.

I'm beginning to think that many traders are unable to see how much crap that drops, and how little usefull loot that drops.

And how LITTLE impact increased drop rates of orbs will have, and how HUGE impact no trading will have.

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Phrazz wrote:

It seems to me like many of the "anti-SFL" people have taken out the "they don't know what it will be like"-card, and the "they don't know what's fun"-card.

It almost seems like they believe charcters in a SFL will level faster than in a trading league. It almost seems like think a SFL charcter will reach all carrots faster than a trading character.

I've played for 2-3 years, still haven't found those three res, high life gloves. But I know I can buy them for almost nothing at XYZ.

I'm beginning to think that many traders are unable to see how much crap that drops, and how little usefull loot that drops.

And how LITTLE impact increased drop rates of orbs will have, and how HUGE impact no trading will have.

*makes circular motion with hand* This isn't the fun you're looking for.

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Phrazz wrote:

I'm beginning to think that many traders are unable to see how much crap that drops, and how little usefull loot that drops.

Funny you say that, because what makes most items valuable is trading being possible. I find 'crap' all the time that I wouldn't wear because it would be a downgrade, but I can easily sell it for 1-3 chaos, which makes that crap actually valuable. Without trading, there would be even more crap items.

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Xavderion wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

I'm beginning to think that many traders are unable to see how much crap that drops, and how little usefull loot that drops.

Funny you say that, because what makes most items valuable is trading being possible. I find 'crap' all the time that I wouldn't wear because it would be a downgrade, but I can easily sell it for 1-3 chaos, which makes that crap actually valuable. Without trading, there would be even more crap items.

I agree with your post. Just wanted to address your sig though, I like to use hyberbole whether i need to or not thank you.