GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

It is kinda funny how ppl still talk about idealistic drop rate increases and all that stuff that neither is needed nor for obvious reason is gonna happen.

When I then grab this up and build my argumentation on increased drop and crafting rates against self found leagues, the other guy comes and say "none of us wants increased droprates, it is not what we want!" and the next like "you are only doing assumptions".




Either way, dropping/crafting success and the opposite is in no way dependent on absolute drop rates of orbs/items, but on relative expections on what you think a good item/result is and what an improvement for yourself is and what still can be found (that has not been found yet). With increased droprates these expectations would just increase by a proportional amount and you end up in the exact same spot that you are in the regular leagues now (this is independent on how much they get increased).

The easiest example to proof this is what happens if you just increase drop rates an an infinite amount so that you would find all items instantly. The chance to find anything that increases you afterwards will be zero and so are the incentives to go on playing.






Let me give the example for the non infinite increase of drops that served as the underlayings for my argumentation from the beginning:

1. the higher the droprates are, the lesser the absolute amount of upgrades of items that you dont have and can find is going to be after xyz amount of time, with xyz not being in the realtive beginning of a league.

2. the lesser the droprates are, the higher the absolute amount of upgrades that you can find after any given time (the same as in 1.) is.


This is easy: Take any point of time after the league started (lets say after 2 months) and compare 1. and 2. in a showcase economy of 10 available items:

After 2 monthes you will have found 7/10 items in assumption 1. and 3/10 items in assumption 2.
1. Will provide you an absoulte number of 3 out of 10 items that still can be found, and
2. will provide you an absolute number of 7 out of 10 items that are still going to be found (possiblilty).

With increased droprates of assumption 1 in a SFL, you will have still about the same relative chance to find one item out of 3/10 items as what it is in a regular droprate league to find one item out of 7/10 of items.


What this little example shows is three things:
a) increased droprates decreases the absolute number of items a player can still find (less incentive to go on playing)
b) increased droprates increase the absolute number of acquired items (more incentives to go on playing)
c) increased droprates do not change the relative chance to find a new item/upgrade (no change in incentives to go on playing/feeling fun while playing etc.).

From this equitation, a simple result can be followed:
If a) and b) more or less equalize each other, the only thing that matters is c).
c) does not provide any change to the player.

Factor time in:
The more time passes, the less b) is able to equalize a) with c) being unchanged.



It is quite obvious, that 95% of ppl in this forums do not know what creates the fun for them. Most lie about it and say only b) is deceisive for them. They don't know any better, I don't blame them for it. However for the developers it is not important what players believe what makes them stick to the game (acquiring all items quickly) but what actually makes them stick to the game and creates incentives to go on playing.

Trading is not a way to acquire all items quickly (otherwise everyone could and would do it) but a way to acquire specific items that you want more easily. This is something an RNG based game is based on. The argument that trading creates the same effect as increased droprates, is plain wrong. This is a significant difference.



On the other hand, and this is what people tend to forget when talking about sfl, there is another effect:
In the given example above in a SFL with increased droprates after x amount of time (that I randomly set to two months) you have the chance to find 3/10 of items that you don't have yet/improve you that will make you happy. In a normal league you still have 7/10 left that you can still find to upgrade you (with a lesser chance that it's gonna happen of course) and you have additional 3/10 chance to find an item that you already own/don't want or need which you can sell or give to another player which adds up to 7/10 + 3/10 = 10/10.


Well known:

- The fact that you can not drop an item to a friend that you are playing with (for free, without evil orb trading being involved) further decreases the fun factor of such a league. It ends up everyone being subordinated completely to the RNG and its frustrating well known results.

- Not being able to buy 1/10 of item (obove example) at a later point of time while RNG constantly drops 9/10 of items that you already have (with still increased drop chances) futher shifts it into the zone of an absolutely frustrating experience.



After all I do not want to argue against SFL fascists that 100% know this is the experience they want. They know better what they want than I do of course. But I can tell with these mathematical proofs, that a SFL would create negative experiences or at best no difference in experience for the absolute majority of players in comparison to what normal leagues/droprates do.

There is no reason for GGG to create a SFL with fake incentives (=increased droprates) that eventually teases players out of normal leagues into the SFL in order to give them a worse playing experience than what the would have now. And this should answer the threads question.

And this all is aside the fact (yes fact) that clustering up the game more and more is a negative aspect itself.

"

LSN wrote:

After all I do not want to argue against SFL fascists

You've said enough. I truly hope noone will fall in the trap of actually trying to discuss anything with you. You should just get out of the thread and save yourself the miniscule amount of respect you might have elsewhere.

If you want your opinion to be valued and taken into consideration, learn to be neutral.

"

VenatorPoE wrote:

If you want your opinion to be valued and taken into consideration, learn to be neutral.

Nah, that's what you should do if you want to have the "nice" parts of your argument quoted out of context and used towards an agenda you don't endorse.

I'd rather be hated.

"

VenatorPoE wrote:

"

LSN wrote:

After all I do not want to argue against SFL fascists

You've said enough. I truly hope noone will fall in the trap of actually trying to discuss anything with you. You should just get out of the thread and save yourself the miniscule amount of respect you might have elsewhere.

If you want your opinion to be valued and taken into consideration, learn to be neutral.

This comes from a man who hasn't made a point yet, belongs to the 95% of players that I talked of and is not able to get into real arguments.

I am sorry but this phrase is adequate for ppl who no matter what the results of a SFL would be are sure that they would want it to be like this.

I don't mean this even negatively, it just describes that they would not let any argument count no matter of how much concengy is being involved. It certainly just fits well. Deal with it.




What I did here, is more or less loosely mathematically proofing why a SFL is a no good (and therefoe answering the thread). You ignore all that and base your single argument on that I used the phrase "SFL fascists".

You are the kind of ppl the world does not need in fact, as this attitude of political correctness causes most societal evil in the world. But I am sure a man of your substance, wont even understand such things even in 20 years ahead from now.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

VenatorPoE wrote:

If you want your opinion to be valued and taken into consideration, learn to be neutral.

Nah, that's what you should do if you want to have the "nice" parts of your argument quoted out of context and used towards an agenda you don't endorse.

I'd rather be hated.

He does not have anything nice in his post. His post is based on a premise that what he thinks about the game is factual and represents the feelings of the majority. He then also proceeds to insult on several levels. There is nothing in his post that hasn't been discussed already.

And you are not much better than him, but at least you're not so directly insulting. You're the doctor, remember?

"

LSN wrote:

This comes from a man who hasn't made a point yet, belongs to the 95% of players that I talked of and is not able to get into real arguments.

I am sorry but this phrase is adequate for ppl who no matter what the results of a SFL would be are sure that they would want it to be like this.

I don't mean this even negatively, it just describes that they would not let any argument count no matter of how much concengy is being involved. It certainly just fits well. Deal with it.

Learn to read. "Deal with it" is just another example of how you and Scrotie discuss things. You are "right" and everyone else is "fascist".

"

LSN wrote:

What I did here, is more or less loosely mathematically proofing why a SFL is a no good (and therefoe answering the thread). You ignore all that and base your single argument on that I used the phrase "SFL fascists".

You are the kind of ppl the world does not need in fact, as this attitude of political correctness causes most societal evil in the world. But I am sure a man of your substance, wont even understand such things even in 20 years ahead from now.

No. You are mathematically proving why the SFL wouldn't be your league of choice, nothing else.

Not even going to bother commenting on the rest of your post, I'm not going to be pulled into that kind of troll.

Learn to read.

I say 95% of ppl who vote for it (e.g. in that poll) don't know that a SFL would not give them a longer or more enjoyable gaming experience.

The 5% that does and still want it, belong to the SFL fascists group that prefer it for no actual but idealogical reasons. Facism is a a hard-line ideology, this is why it fits.


Still you have not provided counter arguments to what I showcased here. You just say it is not like that. Thats all.


It is fantatic, how ppl can constantly ignore the facts, provide no single argument and believe they are right. This includes the claim that GGG does not know themselves what is best for their game but they do instead.

The things are exactly the opposite of what you think they are. The only argument you have is that you would prefer a SFL above anything else.

If you are man enaugh, pm me your ign. In game I will give you ts3 server and I will talk this out with you. But you probably wont, as there is no point that you could make besides your own likes and dislikes.

inb4

"

VenatorPoE wrote:

"

LSN wrote:

What I did here, is more or less loosely mathematically proofing why a SFL is a no good (and therefoe answering the thread). You ignore all that and base your single argument on that I used the phrase "SFL fascists".

You are the kind of ppl the world does not need in fact, as this attitude of political correctness causes most societal evil in the world. But I am sure a man of your substance, wont even understand such things even in 20 years ahead from now.

No. You are mathematically proving why the SFL wouldn't be your league of choice, nothing else.

Not even going to bother commenting on the rest of your post, I'm not going to be pulled into that kind of troll.

Or he just made the best post with the most valid points i have seen in a long time, and you just don't know how to answer to him without cheap tactics or logical fallacies.

But hey , let's keep it as he is just trolling , so you guys can continue your crusade.

Indeed khemintiri this is what is happening here.

It is a well known strategy of politically correct activists to terminate every level of real discussion (policy) as there is only one correct view of things to them.
These ppl think their opinion is god given and everyone who differs from it is naturally evil human being.


What they in fact miss about all that is that I plainly try to explain why a SFL has many downsides, especially when looking at it from the developers perspective. This is the topic of the thread.

The topic of the thread is not: I like SFL more for no rational reason (therefore a fascist) that I could make a point with in a discussion.




The behaviour is quite simple to explain as well. They know as well as I do, that these points that I made can't be invalidated.
a) therefore we don't have a SFL
b) therefore other tactics are being used to invalidate me as a person (fully the behavious of the movement of political correctness).


The funny fact is, that these ppl don't even know that they have been educated in a way that only allows them to act as they do. Being a politically correct person (defined by authorities) outweighs all and any agruments.