GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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Temper wrote:


It doesn't matter what options will be available for custom leagues.The point is,they will split the player base.


Why would splitting the player base be a bad thing? Most people already play alone, especially with carto boxes making it much easier to sustain a high map pool.


I'm also baffled by that splitting argument.
Yet nobody mentioned increase of the player base.
- I hope my comments have been received negatively, I hope it offends you, I you tell me it did, that will warm my heart
to solve a part of the problem i think we should have a limited amount of transactions/trade allowed per day and per account, and the amount of accounts per player should be limited to 1 or so. this way the whole crap would be cleaned alot and items traders only could get good somewhere else (or having much more pain trying to trade here)
C'mon it's sunny outside !
Oh wait...
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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iamstryker wrote:
I don't agree with your analogy. Game developers have much more reason to not only listen to the problems of the game but how they can be potentially fixed as opposed to a doctor taking the advice of a patient. A gamer is going to have more of an idea of what they find to be fun as opposed to a patient knowing how to treat a disease. I think more people are having fun with the game now as opposed to when loot was FFA, good thing people asked for what they wanted.
People don't even know what kind of coffee they like.

Well, that's not entirely true. They do know; they show how they know with their spending dollars. They buy lots of weak coffee and drown it in a lot of milk and sugar. However, they say they like a rich, dark roast, whenever they are surveyed, because it sounds better. Experts in the survey field call this "social desirability bias."

Everybody lies. The only variable is what they lie about, and the question is why they lie about it. Answering that question reveals a truth — sometimes, a useful one.


Well that's fucking profound. lol

Since we're talking about coffee.

I like coffee.

What kind of coffee do I like ?

Coffee that I think tastes good ... for someone like me that's practically any coffee bar one with a swirl of cow shit in it.What coffee others drink and enjoy is their own business.

Everybody lies ? heh maybe everbody you know.....

=)
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Temper wrote:


It doesn't matter what options will be available for custom leagues.The point is,they will split the player base.


Why would splitting the player base be a bad thing? Most people already play alone, especially with carto boxes making it much easier to sustain a high map pool.


Which was exactly my point. =P
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
Spoiler
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Jojas wrote:
There is no doubt you can play solo self-found and just breeze through the content. Just keep farming act-bosses and eventually you will get all you need: Gear for your char and orbs for maps (via the recipes). And if you run out of orbs for your maps (or maps), just farm actbosses again, rinse, repeat.

The problem - and I seriously don't understand why you and so many are so eager not to see it - is not that this is too "challenging", the problem is that it is too tedious. The problem is the RMT, the flippers and the scumbags that come along with unlimited trade. The problem is the dependency on trade if you want to have a non-tedious experience.

There is seriously nothing "casual" about it. Why is that so hard to understand?


There is something casual about it. Allow me to explain.

The real reason you guys are against trading is that it, too, is tedious. Setting up a shop, looking up items on xyz, all that stuff is a form of tedium. It's a very rare situation where the prospect of a new item is exciting enough to give that tedium an enjoyable feeling of anticipation; generally, only build-enabling uniques can pull it off.

So if you want to gear up, you're in for some tedium no matter how you go. You can do the whole farming Merc bosses thing, or you can trade. Tedium either way...

...unless you go all Courage Wolf on the situation. Fuck upgrading. Fuck tedium. Just stroll into that difficult content undergeared, weak, likely to die. And live anyway. Because you're badass.

That's hardcore. Continually pressing forward to avoid tedium, completely bypassing the easyfarm-or-trade dichotomy. Making level 87 that way feels like an accomplishment.

So no, I'm not pro-tedium. I don't know, and can't imagine, anyone who is. However, my response to tedium is to accept the game's difficulty and put myself in some truly challenging situations. I don't mind if my character dies, if it will alleviate some boredom. You apparently do.


Just like you I enjoy challenging situations, but as it is, not the defense is the problem, a satisfying killspeed is. A lack of defense can almost always be made up for by being alert and having a good movement skill. A lack of dps can be made up for by nothing.
If you can find enjoyment in a game in which you see that it takes longer and longer for you to kill stuff while you try to progress, good for you. So much more if (and it really can be a big "if") you finally get a good weapon and reap the rewards of the previous tedium.
But if that is so, I really think you are an exception. Not just as a gamer, but even among the "hardcore" crowd here that is supposedly so afraid of PoE getting more casual.

Also, I think you are mistaken when you think people who want an SFL (or better drops) are afraid of the tedium of trade. For one, trading as it is now, - unless you only trade via the trade chat - breaks the fourth wall. Some people don't like that. I don't, at all.
Then, trading as dominant as it is now, turns the game into a game of currency acquisition. Every drop that is not an upgrade for you is only being seen as the number of orbs you can get for it. Again, some people don't like that.
Then there is the matter of how you approach the game. If you have a specific build in mind and just care for being able to play that build, trading is the way to go.
But there is a different approach as well: Starting with a generic run-of-the-mill build and discover build possibilities by what drops for you.
PoE greatly favours the former because the latter involves such a tremendous amount of grind that only a few people really do that. And nobody who plays it rather seriously would try that in the 4-month leagues.

As far as what I have read here, this is what advocates of SFL or better drops or both are all about. It's not about dumbing PoE down, not about instant gratification and BiS items, but about PoE being possibly a really great game, but the enormous dependency on trade simply ruining it.
Even I disagree with Scrotie most of the time he made sense and I appreciated his posts as it contributes to the discussion. That said last few posts of his are nothing but reflection of going pure apeshit.
Timezone: GMT+2
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tinko92 wrote:
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Temper wrote:


It doesn't matter what options will be available for custom leagues.The point is,they will split the player base.


Why would splitting the player base be a bad thing? Most people already play alone, especially with carto boxes making it much easier to sustain a high map pool.


I'm also baffled by that splitting argument.
Yet nobody mentioned increase of the player base.


I believe people meant that an increase in the player base would be an incentive for GGG to release a SFL. In D3 you don't really interact with people outside of bounties and rifts, so it's not like an increase in the amount of players would really impact player interaction in a SFL.
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TheAnuhart wrote:
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SaiyanZ wrote:
No, if a player trades then they are not playing SF. There is no such thing as true SF or not. It is black or white, no in-between.

SF self imposed rule is easy to follow by a player.
HC self imposed rule is almost impossible to follow by a player. Who is going to delete their items and characters permanently in a game about finding items? Nobody would do this and HC would not exist.


Self imposed rule = self imposed rule.

Sorry, I can't see your point, at all.

Regardless, this debate is stupid. Because "you can play SF currently" is stupid.
It's a debate based on a statement which is flawed to begin with.

Now if there were adjustments, changes made to the current leagues which actually meant one could play SF in the current leagues. To and through end game, engage in crafting and not resort to farming easy but available content to attempt access to more difficult content. Changes that would also improve the game for non-self found players, too. Changes that would save this game from an inevitable demise. Changes that would increase player base, retention and longevity; then we could indeed say "you can play SF in current leagues".

The debate that you can play HC in SC would still exist, the comparisons would still exist, but at least the statement it was born from would be true.


No worries. Others would have understood what I said in my previous posts. It keeps flying over your head.
The reason I'm against trading is that I don't like to feel that someone else is playing the game for me.
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ignarsoll wrote:
Even I disagree with Scrotie most of the time he made sense and I appreciated his posts as it contributes to the discussion. That said last few posts of his are nothing but reflection of going pure apeshit.


Same.
- I hope my comments have been received negatively, I hope it offends you, I you tell me it did, that will warm my heart

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