RoS sales is a sign that millions are still searching for a better arpg playing experience. .

all 3 can be instantly bypassed with trading (and/or rmt). and some people do that

ladders are full of cheaters, rmters and you can simply buy yourself to the top (invasion atziri kills anyone)

when it comes to top positions it is more than less - p2w. the only sad/surprising part is that it is not (?) ggg that is getting paid by these people but some rmters

how many invasion atziri kills were 'legit' and how many were bought for (frequently rmted) 20ex?

hardecore game that is based on alt-f4 :)

it is fun game, but calling it hardcore is only the 'feel better about oneself' trick

"

There are people who 'devote his or her life' to almost any decent game out there. You don't think there are people who have spent more time playing the CS series than any of the GGG developers have spent making this game?

Seems like a non-answer. Just because the game is made for people who devote huge amounts of time does not mean it has to suck for everybody else. Hell, just because it's for people who devote huge amounts of time does not mean that the variance has to be so large that one person who has devoted a huge amount of time is broke and another is richer than sin.

It has to do with appeal.

For example. Losing EXP on death feels bad, but casual gamers really hate it, because they don't want to spend a lot of time into the game just to reach a certain level. They want to get things definitely.

D3 has no exp penalty.

You may call that it has to suck for everybody else while I think it is a nice feature and tells you "don't die or bad things happen."

If PoE would remove that because a lot of people complain they would make the game suitable for casual gamers. Same with increasing drop rate, reducing difficulty or any other challenge the game may have so people who hate devoting themselves can have short whiled fun.

But hardcore gamers want games they can play indefinitely, or at least a very long time, constantly learning and getting better and bragging etc.
It's a form of elitist culture and let that have people.

Those who acquired infinite wealth in SC, let them have the bragging rights.

Those who reach level 100 in HC, let them have the bragging rights.

Those who have won 100 demigods in races, let them have the bragging rights.

Those are all trophies of hardcore gaming. And that's why we like PoE. That's why we play it and that's what we want.

Sure there are casual PoE gamers. I am fairly casual. I can only spend like 3h a day during the week and a bit more on weekends.
I cannot participate in every race, can't no life a 1week race or reach level 100 in a HC ladder.
But I still enjoy all these aspects even if I cannot reach them, but you know if I could reach them even with my limited time and devotion I would find it less enjoyable and less "hardcore".

"

sidtherat wrote:

all 3 can be instantly bypassed with trading (and/or rmt). and some people do that

Wow yeah good job, you can rmt in WoW as well which doesn't make it any less HC for those who raid 48h without sleep.
Just because the possibility of hacking, cheating and RMT might exist doesn't devalue the game.
Shame on those who do it, but don't forget the legit people who never do such things and still acquire top ladder etc.

"

sidtherat wrote:

ladders are full of cheaters, rmters and you can simply buy yourself to the top (invasion atziri kills anyone)

Yeah or hardcore gamers.
Sorry but again just because there might be cheaters in the ladder doesn't mean the others are cheaters as well.

"

sidtherat wrote:

when it comes to top positions it is more than less - p2w. the only sad/surprising part is that it is not (?) ggg that is getting paid by these people but some rmters

Just terrible generalization. I don't know if you watch any stream but there are people on top of the ladder who just play a lot and spend their time in PoE playing the game and not whining on trivial shit.

"

sidtherat wrote:

how many invasion atziri kills were 'legit' and how many were bought for (frequently rmted) 20ex?

Yeah shame but there have been legit kills will you not disregard Mors and HVR for killing atziri? Are they not "hardcore" enough because others bought the kills?
They did it legit. At least Mors I know he did.

"

sidtherat wrote:

hardecore game that is based on alt-f4 :)

Stupid fucking argument over and over again.
First it's log out not altF4.
Second D2 also had instant log out.
Third the game is mostly balanced around log out.
Fourth log out timer fucking suck especially if you cannot pause the game and some shit in RL happens and you just want to get out.
Fifth, log outs are important for races to get to town fast.
Sixth, people in SC also log out when they are high level.

"

sidtherat wrote:

it is fun game, but calling it hardcore is only the 'feel better about oneself' trick

It is a game with a hardcore audience in mind. There is a difference.

"

kaarelo wrote:

why are you even here ?

[removed by support]

"

Arrowneous wrote:

There must be a tremendous desire for better rewards for time played by a huge segment of the arpg crowd to get that many sales that fast.

you should be writing press releases for living

I'd guess that the correlation between D3 sales and the quality/direction/whatever of PoE is 0.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I don't think you have played RoS which is ok. The "smart drop" just helps control RNG a little further. Which the mystic crafting you an even change a mod which increased the usefulness of crafting. Not to mention the transmog which allows you to change your characters appearance. GGG is trying to do this, but for the most part the gear still looks bad.

I could imagine smart drops to affect your character based on the starting tree. However with trading so OP you could get the gear you needed the old fashion way. Pay some other dude for it. Fun.

I don't think you got my point which is ok. The "smart drop" makes sure that mobs drop stuff your class needs more often (main stat, weapon type?). And almost everything in D3 scales off of weapon damage, which makes it easy for smart drop to be smart and drop what you need (moar damage!). This isn't possible in PoE because the game can not know what you need since there are too many possibilites. That's why I genuinely asked how people would approach an attempt to implement "smart drop" in PoE. It certainly can not work like in D3.

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Sa_Re wrote:

I'd guess that the correlation between D3 sales and the quality/direction/whatever of PoE is 0.

Correct.

"

majesw wrote:

I was expecting 2 million copies sold at release for RoS...
After selling 15 million, but receiving super negative feedback, I figured about 2 mil was a good guess. I was very happy for Blizzard that they got closer to 3 million. If they make it to 6 million in the next 6 months they may even make another ex-pac.

This being said it's still horrible... They should have sold so many more copies. There's not much PoE can take from D3 and RoS other than don't cut content...

I think GGG would do well to listen to its player base. I think jeweler/fusing could be improved. There are also a few things that could be done to help the self found player.

But I don't think Diablo 3 ever needs to be brought up here as an example. That game is monumental disappointment for most ARPG fans...

 My reason for this thread is that in spite of the bad take on D3 (and deservedly so) arpg players still bought the new RoS by the millions. Why? It surely was not based on the success of D3. Most of us (probably everyone playing PoE) agree that D3 was a colossal failure for Blizzard (even though it was a financial success). So what motivates 2.7 million in sales despite the D3 failure. Well it could be that many millions of D2 fans went from D3 (failure) to Torchlight 2 (moderate success but no longevity) to PoE (great longevity but with major desync and RNG gambling) and found PoE to be too grindy (similar to D3) and that trading is required if you don't want to take years and years to get to level 100. Then there are many that just took a break from it all for awhile and came back to see if Blizzard learned a thing or 2 from its mistakes. Anyway you slice it 2.7 million (while not record setting like D3 was) is not bad and with bad memories of D3 still fresh enough in our minds to make us very cautious about spending for an expansion there has to be a lot of arpg players looking for a better arpg experience of killing and looting for great treasures.

 Of course there are a few notable exceptions to years of real time to get to 100 and anyone willing to play 12+ hours 7 days a week can certainly get there faster. And there are certainly PoE players that eat and sleep PoE and know the game mechanics inside and out and can power level a build to the 80s in a very short time. Then again there are PoE players that are perfectly happy to be able to play for years and years and never get to 100. But these are the exceptions rather than the norm.

 With 2.7 million in RoS sales already and counting there must be a huge market for an arpg of PoE quality but with better rewards for time spent. GGG has created PoE the way they wanted and that is fine and all and most of us are loving it but it's time for GGG to step back and not be as heavily emotionally invested in their game and look at the bigger picture. Obviously GGG is a business, and as such a business needs to spot market trends and adapt to an ever changing arpg climate if they expect to survive and prosper. So for GGG to step back and examine PoE and analyze why only a small percentage of the 5+ million registered accounts are still playing and the rest have quit and moved on to other non-arpg games and now RoS is an important step to keep PoE alive and healthy so we can all witness an act X some day.

 So many reading this can dismiss me as crazy and would tell me "if you want more rewards for time spent go play Whimseyshire". The truth of the matter is that PoE is not far off the mark and GGG could have its cake and eat it too. All they need to do is expand and create a new league or 2 to increase the playing choices so more could find a play style that is closer to our ideal arpg. After all even RoS has 5 different levels of difficulty + 4 more harder variations on top of the their hardest level of difficulty. So what does PoE offer? 1 Standard, 1 Hardcore, and 2 temporary leagues that end every 4 months. The 4 month leagues are mostly for experimental purposes and I'm loving Ambush and think Invasion is fantastic too (even though I won't be playing it I still love the idea of an uber hardcore league to kill the no-lifers more frequently). That leaves us with only 2 permanent leagues, not near enough to give us the play style choices that are needed to draw in and appeal to a larger world of arpg players. RoS sales figures and Steam PoE playing statistics are just more pieces of the arpg jigsaw puzzle and GGG needs to rethink where they want to be next year with PoE and weigh that against the arpg market and consider changes to make PoE appealing to a larger player base to ensure their long term survival.

ROS is good content.... GGG has been puting out shit content... whats going to happen?

PoE will die when the next few patches go out... no one will be happy with it

"

Arrowneous wrote:

As of April 4th the following was released...

It's evidence there are clueless casuals about that crave shallow instant gratification. Surprise?

PoE is a niche game, for a niche audience.

So, it seems like the world is still in harmony.

Moving on...