What this Passive-Reset Proves.

"

DoomCarpace wrote:

"

allionus wrote:

DoomCarpace, How can you say it is impossible to fail? Do you think it is so trivial to put points? It's more of a joke for you people because you can use the tools spamming, but yesterday, after the patch hit, i stayed in the game, spent 5 hours on the Tree with each character, That's TEN FUCKING HOURS OF PLANNING. What do YOU GUYS DO? Sit there on the tool and boom boom boom done, go around, boom boom, info collected, boom all ready set to go in there and act all high and mighty. And the final build i came up with both guys only gave me about 30% increase in dmg on my Scion(maybe that's from the +2Passive points i got later and put 2X 16% spell dmg), And my Shadow's condition only changed from dps to lower dps, and just a little more resist and hp Regen, My Flicker and Dual Actually do less dmg now lol,). So This would jut happen on a daily basis.

If they make resets available, even if weekly ones:

Im at 60, i go in fight mobs at merciless, realise build's not good, have 1 reset available this week, spend 5 hours making a build on my own, and even that turns out to be bad, lets assume. I Will Spend a Whole Week Getting Fucked non-stop because my build is too bad, but i know a reset is available next week, and i can reset it and try another build by learning from this week's mistakes.

What you people do right now :

You are at lv 60, fighting mobs at merciless, realise your builds not good/efficient either, but you know full reset is not a logical option, so you try a few times, and realise, No, this is not gonna work, i'll keep losing xp and never progress(unless group grind 247), so you log out with that character, transfer all items, everything of value to stash, Make new character, Play a day or three on easy mode, Party hopping and raping portals and Waypoints, have all the good gear from last time, and a Better Skill tree, And Good Calculations and future predictions with all the fancy tewwwls. I have also done it, i am not new to this game and neither were the other 5 people i did it with,lel.


This is perspective.
This is what you are missing and denying.
Think about it.
It will save us running in circles.

Since you have not played D3 I will clue you in on it. You are given your skills and runes(these change how your skills function) when you level up. So that by level 60 you have all skills and runes available. The only difference between one player and the next is load out and gear. All you have to choose is your six active skills, six runes (yes if you fail to choose a rune that skill will not be as good as one with a rune), and three passive skills. Paragon points are earned as you gain paragon levels and there is a round robin of spending them there are four categories and four stats to spend them in.

The skills and runes can be reset in a few clicks. So any consequences of a bad build can be fixed in a few clicks. Let's say you spent a few paragon points in the wrong place. No problem just a few clicks and they are redone as well. You never have to re-level a character again. Tell me how you can possibly fail in Diablo 3 when you can just fix it in a couple of seconds.

As much as you been complaining about screwing up your build in this game you make me begin to wonder when you said you played both 1 and 2. How could you have done that when in D2 there were no doubt many players that screwed up their builds and had to re-roll. I know I did that as well with a few sorc builds (Glacial Spike build I am looking at you).

You are wah wah'ing about having to do some research instead of getting all of that info handed to you on a silver platter just because you play their game. News flash everyone else along with you yourself have at least used the tools once.

I know you do no like failing and want to have GGG make the game fail proof. Maybe even to the point where all you have to do is to type in the type of character that you want to use. Then GGG would pick everything for automatically. Even spending the skill points for you. Making the game duck soup like D3.

Come on what tools are they using that makes it so easy? Tell us if you have understanding. Also prove that these tools are accurate as well.

Also I say take it like a man and learn to work without a weekly respec. I can handle having to re-roll because of a bad build or a build not being 100% optimal (this point I do not care too much about). All I am looking for out of my new witch build in the ambush league is a fun build to play that will give me what I want in the long run.

Oh but i love failing, it helps me find my own way of succeeding, but thanks to PoE, everytime i try that in this game, i end up having to re roll my guy, so i haven't done it more than once(reset saved me, but i went back and made almost the same build i planned last time, with the fixes i made, WITHOUT RESEARCHING.


Ok i'll be harsh here:
IF ONE PERSON CAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS(all the people who put their work online), DO THEIR RESEARCH AND PUT MATERIAL UP ON THE WEB, WHY CANT FUCKING EVERYONE ELSE?

YOU KEEP TELLING ME THAT I WANT EVERYTHING ON A "SILVER PLATTER", BUT YOU ARE THE ONES FEEDING OFF OF SOMEONE ELSE'S HARD WORK, IDEAS AND HOURS OF TIME SPENT WHICH THEY POST HERE FOR EVERYONE TO "LEARN" FROM. THEN PEOPLE GO TELLING ME, A PERSON WHO DOES DO HIS RESEARCH, ONLY DOES NOT PUT EVERYTHING ONLINE FOR OTHERS TO SUCK OFF ON (I limit it to reading from the item wiki, because game too vague about something they seem to take so seriously). BRO, PLEASE TAKE A GOOD LOOK FROM A THIRD-PERSON PERSPECTIVE. I did nothing to make the game easier for me, you did, i did do my research but i don't consider looking at other people's builds as "Research" i call it cheating, stealing ideas. How do people here dare call their builds unique when 90% of the ideas are originating from other people's previous outputs, but no way am i gonna dip in someone else's sauce like most people here. The build i make, however shit it is, will be unique. Even if i don't try, and that can't be taken from me huehehue.


But i never asked for an "on the go resettable passive tree" kind of option. why would i want that?

I want to have the option provided,to get my character back and not lose them forever//till next patches, just because i tried to make my own build. And whenever people point me at regret orb, i wonder " Do i have to keep reminding them that they're useless for long corrections, time:value Ratio is not even close to sensible right now. And if you think people can't do full resets right now, you may know about those market sites which sell anything you want, for the right price lol.
What happens to all the principles the people here try to protect so vigorously? Do they look the other way? DO they only come at me when i say something bout the Holy Tree, as if everything will come breaking down if a "Once a week reset" is allowed? So, back to regret orbs: By going to these markets, a Person who has money to throw, can buy AS MANY RESETS AS HE WANTS, in the process avoiding ALL CONSEQUENCES with $$$$$, Leading to faster finding of builds, which can partially also mean game advantage, which can also mean p2w, either grind, or go to markets and buy the orbs.( o god i really hope ggg isn't in on this bs).

I hope i didnt miss anything, it did hang once while submitting ;v

"

Nicholas_Steel wrote:

"

allionus wrote:

4: Many people will just copy (don't be ignorant, this is true) builds from another, since they get all their characters which they screwed up last time as i have been seeing people. ( This is Reality, disprove it otherwise)

5: Not a SINGLE person says "The passive tree is good, you should experiment different builds as it gives you freedom and is rewarding" oh no. What they say is : "Here, look at these handy tools and websites i used to make my build, you should use these calculators outside the game and pretend like it's not cheating too, so we can all become the same kind of people and defend each other"

Hum, not everyone follows a set build, because that's dumb and defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun to a large degree. Point 5 is just not true at all, A lot of people might say that, but definitely not all. The tools do certainly help, but I doubt everyone mentioning them uses them with extreme scrutiny to get everything perfect like you've implied throughout a large portion of your post.

I haven't looked at a single build and can get to level 70 these days without issue, took several characters before I understood the skill tree, game mechanics in general, itemization and also what the game expected of me. Learning it all and building my own successful character was pretty fun :)

Also, just because everyone for the most part uses the respec to mostly recreate what they already had, doesn't make that a bad thing. I'm not sure how it could even be a bad thing either. People are instinctively a creature of habit, nothing wrong with it.

oo haha, no 5 wasn't something someone would say, but it's how it would do, if they were completely honest, that's what i personally got in my first post, half a dozen people didn't tell me much, and then linked tool sites, and helper pages ;v.

But you must know that not everyone is able to access these tools, some people take months to find them, i personally took over a year. Are you just gonna push us all aside, saying that too bad i should have found it, so there's one instance of disadvantage that other people have over ones who have mastered and constantly use these things. Making the game easier for themselves, and relieving the pressure of making ingame decisions which can do permanent damage if you didn't to them outside the game, on a software. Please, explain this to me: Why do most people here say ITS OK "using external tools which not everyone has access to or knows about and will not do so for indefinite amounts of time, to help themselves make highly precise decisions and Decision making that can be covered to level 100 in one session, which to do in the fucking game, you need to actually reach level 100 first haha, but on the software, all you do is type your name, import inventory for even better and more real results, and then just set in class and type ' 100 '.

Whereas i, with my reset tree, Would still first have to find a build that can get me to 100 with one class first LOL and then ONLY ONCE A WEEK, would i be able to test a reset, whereas you can a thousand times Giving you UNDENIABLE ADVANTAGE WITH PROPER NUMERICAL VALUES over the ones not blessed by the holy tooleeees. and you know what OMFG I KEEP REALISING MORE AND MORE REASONS AS TO WHY MY OPTION IS BETTER THAN THE CURRENT ONE. Sorry it just is, i am not someone who is of linear thinking, i have properly spent the past 2 weeks constantly weighing the negatives and positives of it, and the latter is not seen yet.

And yes, i want people to do research, but please, can we limit it to discussing changes in numerical values, mechanics and passive tree nodes etc, not "MY 4BILLION DPS BUILD OMG LOOK, PROOF SCREENS DOWN, VIDEO DOWN, LINK TO TREE DOWN, RECCOMENDED ITEMS DOWN, GEMS DOWN"(it happens all round the community) if everyone calls them unique, what's the point of everyone showcasing their op builds, i find this another Toxin in the community, People just completely stamp their whole character on forums, everything; from items to build to how they did it, what works best, everything lol. jee, i don't think im the one doing bad to the community, might actually be the people who think they are "contributing", by perpetuating the ignorance and dependency of others.


Look at something without attaching it to yourself, and perhaps you'll see it clearer ;v

I think i forgot to mention this in a quote previously; People can STILL COPY FLAVOURS OF THE MONTH, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS JUST SPEND A FEW HOURS GRINDING TO MAKE A PUPPET TO APPLY THE FLAVOUR TO IS ALL. ASSHOLES ALWAYS GONNA BE ASSHOLES, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN STOP PEOPLE FROM COPYING OTHER PEOPLE, AND WE CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM MAKING OTHER PEOPLE COPY THEM EITHER.what we can do is allow people who don't give a fuck about these kind of people and just wanna find their own way without taking/copying someone else.


COMEON LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS A GAME, HOW BAD DO YOU HAVE TO BE, THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN BUILD A FUNCTIONAL PASSIVE TREE.

So can we at least please stop pretending that the current system is any sort of a solution?kty.

"

DoomCarpace wrote:

"

allionus wrote:

DoomCarpace, How can you say it is impossible to fail? Do you think it is so trivial to put points? It's more of a joke for you people because you can use the tools spamming, but yesterday, after the patch hit, i stayed in the game, spent 5 hours on the Tree with each character, That's TEN FUCKING HOURS OF PLANNING. What do YOU GUYS DO? Sit there on the tool and boom boom boom done, go around, boom boom, info collected, boom all ready set to go in there and act all high and mighty. And the final build i came up with both guys only gave me about 30% increase in dmg on my Scion(maybe that's from the +2Passive points i got later and put 2X 16% spell dmg), And my Shadow's condition only changed from dps to lower dps, and just a little more resist and hp Regen, My Flicker and Dual Actually do less dmg now lol,). So This would jut happen on a daily basis.

If they make resets available, even if weekly ones:

Im at 60, i go in fight mobs at merciless, realise build's not good, have 1 reset available this week, spend 5 hours making a build on my own, and even that turns out to be bad, lets assume. I Will Spend a Whole Week Getting Fucked non-stop because my build is too bad, but i know a reset is available next week, and i can reset it and try another build by learning from this week's mistakes.

What you people do right now :

You are at lv 60, fighting mobs at merciless, realise your builds not good/efficient either, but you know full reset is not a logical option, so you try a few times, and realise, No, this is not gonna work, i'll keep losing xp and never progress(unless group grind 247), so you log out with that character, transfer all items, everything of value to stash, Make new character, Play a day or three on easy mode, Party hopping and raping portals and Waypoints, have all the good gear from last time, and a Better Skill tree, And Good Calculations and future predictions with all the fancy tewwwls. I have also done it, i am not new to this game and neither were the other 5 people i did it with,lel.


This is perspective.
This is what you are missing and denying.
Think about it.
It will save us running in circles.

Since you have not played D3 I will clue you in on it. You are given your skills and runes(these change how your skills function) when you level up. So that by level 60 you have all skills and runes available. The only difference between one player and the next is load out and gear. All you have to choose is your six active skills, six runes (yes if you fail to choose a rune that skill will not be as good as one with a rune), and three passive skills. Paragon points are earned as you gain paragon levels and there is a round robin of spending them there are four categories and four stats to spend them in.

The skills and runes can be reset in a few clicks. So any consequences of a bad build can be fixed in a few clicks. Let's say you spent a few paragon points in the wrong place. No problem just a few clicks and they are redone as well. You never have to re-level a character again. Tell me how you can possibly fail in Diablo 3 when you can just fix it in a couple of seconds.

As much as you been complaining about screwing up your build in this game you make me begin to wonder when you said you played both 1 and 2. How could you have done that when in D2 there were no doubt many players that screwed up their builds and had to re-roll. I know I did that as well with a few sorc builds (Glacial Spike build I am looking at you).

You are wah wah'ing about having to do some research instead of getting all of that info handed to you on a silver platter just because you play their game. News flash everyone else along with you yourself have at least used the tools once.

I know you do no like failing and want to have GGG make the game fail proof. Maybe even to the point where all you have to do is to type in the type of character that you want to use. Then GGG would pick everything for automatically. Even spending the skill points for you. Making the game duck soup like D3.

Come on what tools are they using that makes it so easy? Tell us if you have understanding. Also prove that these tools are accurate as well.

Also I say take it like a man and learn to work without a weekly respec. I can handle having to re-roll because of a bad build or a build not being 100% optimal (this point I do not care too much about). All I am looking for out of my new witch build in the ambush league is a fun build to play that will give me what I want in the long run.

Re rolling has nothing to do with being able to "Handle" leveling from normal act 1 to merciless act 3. The point is that i don't wanna do that every time i find something new about the tree.

Not because im a little sissy bitch who likes it easy all the time and wants to be spoon fed all the good shiznit.

But because I DONT FUCKING WANNA WASTE MY LIFE PLAYING THRU THE SAME BORING PILE OF SHIT EVERY TIME I WANNA CORRECT MY MISTAKES, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN YOUR BRAIN UPDATES YOU ON THE TREE, BUT HERE IT HAPPENS AROUND ONCE EVERYTIME I LOOK AT THE PASSIVE TREE!

I am gonna try not entice another response fueled by anger or offense, so please DO NOT compare D3 to this game, YOU ARE THE SOURCE OF YOUR PROBLEM HERE! You Keep thinking that this game is gonna become like DIABLO, guess what? IT ALREADY IS, IT HAS SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH THE GAME, YOU CAN NOT CHANGE IT, SO CAN THE ONLY REASON YOU HAVE FOR DEFENDING THIS BS NOT BE YOUR HATE TOWARDS DIABLO 3, WHEN THAT GAME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US HERE! FK!

Yo you need to chill, instead of raging all over everyone why don't you suggest what I gave you an idea on. A testing arena/test server that allows you to try out changes to your build before you lock it in.

Also like I said before, just because the x build guy remakes the build doesn't mean everything you listed. It mostly means because he still wanted to play the same build. I got a free passive reset for alot of my characters and all of them are going to be the same thing with one of them that I'm trying to try something new because I didn't like the character as much.

"

And people even seem to credit this process with "teaching" you something. What exactly is it that it teaches every one?

Oh I don't know it might teach you what not to do. Knowing what not to do is learning. This passive tree might on the surface seem daunting all you need is to learn the basic mechanics of the game and what stats are important to a character. When you know that then you can start increasing the important stats and which ones will be handled by the tree and which ones will be handled by gear. Oh but i love failing, it helps me find my own way of succeeding, but thanks to PoE, everytime i try that in this game, i end up having to re roll my guy, so i haven't done it more than once(reset saved me, but i went back and made almost the same build i planned last time, with the fixes i made, WITHOUT RESEARCHING.

"

Ok i'll be harsh here:
IF ONE PERSON CAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS(all the people who put their work online), DO THEIR RESEARCH AND PUT MATERIAL UP ON THE WEB, WHY CANT FUCKING EVERYONE ELSE?

YOU KEEP TELLING ME THAT I WANT EVERYTHING ON A "SILVER PLATTER", BUT YOU ARE THE ONES FEEDING OFF OF SOMEONE ELSE'S HARD WORK, IDEAS AND HOURS OF TIME SPENT WHICH THEY POST HERE FOR EVERYONE TO "LEARN" FROM. THEN PEOPLE GO TELLING ME, A PERSON WHO DOES DO HIS RESEARCH, ONLY DOES NOT PUT EVERYTHING ONLINE FOR OTHERS TO SUCK OFF ON (I limit it to reading from the item wiki, because game too vague about something they seem to take so seriously). BRO, PLEASE TAKE A GOOD LOOK FROM A THIRD-PERSON PERSPECTIVE. I did nothing to make the game easier for me, you did, i did do my research but i don't consider looking at other people's builds as "Research" i call it cheating, stealing ideas. How do people here dare call their builds unique when 90% of the ideas are originating from other people's previous outputs, but no way am i gonna dip in someone else's sauce like most people here. The build i make, however shit it is, will be unique. Even if i don't try, and that can't be taken from me huehehue.


But i never asked for an "on the go resettable passive tree" kind of option. why would i want that?

I want to have the option provided,to get my character back and not lose them forever//till next patches, just because i tried to make my own build. And whenever people point me at regret orb, i wonder " Do i have to keep reminding them that they're useless for long corrections, time:value Ratio is not even close to sensible right now. And if you think people can't do full resets right now, you may know about those market sites which sell anything you want, for the right price lol.
What happens to all the principles the people here try to protect so vigorously? Do they look the other way? DO they only come at me when i say something bout the Holy Tree, as if everything will come breaking down if a "Once a week reset" is allowed? So, back to regret orbs: By going to these markets, a Person who has money to throw, can buy AS MANY RESETS AS HE WANTS, in the process avoiding ALL CONSEQUENCES with $$$$$, Leading to faster finding of builds, which can partially also mean game advantage, which can also mean p2w, either grind, or go to markets and buy the orbs.( o god i really hope ggg isn't in on this bs).

I hope i didnt miss anything, it did hang once while submitting ;v

In order to truly do theorycrafting math you would have to know calculus. Everyone did not learn calculus or care to learn it for that matter. Even ones that don't mind doing math.

Some people just do not have the skills to do all of the important work, including the math, in order to figure out a perfectly optimized build. Some truly do not have the time to do it period. This means you will get all kinds of reasons why people copy. But here is a good question why would you want to force everyone to play a fully optimized build. Some players do not want to do that. As long as a build can help them kill stuff and clear content they are satisfied. That is what some players do.

Further you said you plaid D2 but you must've hated it because until Blizz added in respecs you had to reroll to fix your mistaks there was now way around it. I have no doubt that you like me and thousands if not millions of others players made mistakes when making their character.

Not if you are learning how to tailor make what you done to suit your style. Or learning what went wrong. Maybe you had the wrong skill gems so the only thing that is needed is to get different gems.

Trust me what someone else said earlier would come true. Players would just simply take one build that is good for leveling then switch to an endgame build that is good for mapping. The choices would not be meaningful if you can change them in one week. Most players can stand waiting a week. Trust me I know that I could easily stand it. And if I could do it so could anyone else.

"

allionus wrote:

I think i forgot to mention this in a quote previously; People can STILL COPY FLAVOURS OF THE MONTH, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS JUST SPEND A FEW HOURS GRINDING TO MAKE A PUPPET TO APPLY THE FLAVOUR TO IS ALL. ASSHOLES ALWAYS GONNA BE ASSHOLES, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN STOP PEOPLE FROM COPYING OTHER PEOPLE, AND WE CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM MAKING OTHER PEOPLE COPY THEM EITHER.what we can do is allow people who don't give a fuck about these kind of people and just wanna find their own way without taking/copying someone else.


COMEON LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS A GAME, HOW BAD DO YOU HAVE TO BE, THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN BUILD A FUNCTIONAL PASSIVE TREE.

So can we at least please stop pretending that the current system is any sort of a solution?kty.

Look the only way that the tree would not be functional is if the passive nodes are broken. Where you would have a lot of nodes that do not work as intended or do absolutely nothing at all.

The only thing that tree does not do is show you the perfect optimal build for whatever you are wanting. That is something that you have to find on your own. Just like in D2 if you wanted a perfect WolfHowl Barb then you would have to know how to go about getting that done.

You can still take your own build. The only thing is that when you do not fully understand the mechanics the chances of screwing up increase. Also if you want to have a perfectly optimized build of your own then you have to do the work of doing the math. Finding if is stat A is better for build X or Stat B is better for that build

"

Re rolling has nothing to do with being able to "Handle" leveling from normal act 1 to merciless act 3. The point is that i don't wanna do that every time i find something new about the tree.

Not because im a little sissy bitch who likes it easy all the time and wants to be spoon fed all the good shiznit.

But because I DONT FUCKING WANNA WASTE MY LIFE PLAYING THRU THE SAME BORING PILE OF SHIT EVERY TIME I WANNA CORRECT MY MISTAKES, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN YOUR BRAIN UPDATES YOU ON THE TREE, BUT HERE IT HAPPENS AROUND ONCE EVERYTIME I LOOK AT THE PASSIVE TREE!

I am gonna try not entice another response fueled by anger or offense, so please DO NOT compare D3 to this game, YOU ARE THE SOURCE OF YOUR PROBLEM HERE! You Keep thinking that this game is gonna become like DIABLO, guess what? IT ALREADY IS, IT HAS SO MUCH IN COMMON WITH THE GAME, YOU CAN NOT CHANGE IT, SO CAN THE ONLY REASON YOU HAVE FOR DEFENDING THIS BS NOT BE YOUR HATE TOWARDS DIABLO 3, WHEN THAT GAME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US HERE! FK!

Look FYI I love D3 and play it along with this game. But still that does not mean that D3 is not easy mode. Just ask anyone else here and they will tell you that compared to this game D3 is without a doubt easy mode. You do not have to do as much thinking as you do in this game.

Also others will tell you that D3 is nothing like the first two games. Since you obviously ignored my last reply on that subject. So just talk to others about D3 and you will see what I am saying.

GGG should give warning to people writing too much with CAPS, because it's really annoying.

im not argument a lot, but clearly this those nerfs sucks. you guys are wasting time discussing why, or why not.

I just don't play it anymore. thanks to GGG leak of sense.

Anyways, OP is angry that people are using 3rd party tools to plan out their character build. The solution proposed by him? Make it significantly easier to change players builds on-the-fly! Ditch the current skill tree because it discourages/slows down copying other players builds that you want to try on a whim!