What this Passive-Reset Proves.

THIS IS NOT OVER-TYPING!!! MY HANDS AREN'T HURTING AT ALL!! :v

"

allionus wrote:

Neither does it need blind people like you. The point is not "Me not wanting to use those Tools", It's "People here pretending like nothing becomes easier by using those tools, when that's the very fucking reason everyone uses them lol".

Where exactly do people do that? All I have ever seen is people giving the advice to use poe builder or any other tool that adds up the numbers of the tree. Because, so they say, then you will get a more accurate picture of what your build will look like in the end.

But never, ever, ever have I seen anyone saying that there is no difference. How could they?
Where did you get that?

"

Jojas wrote:

"

allionus wrote:

Neither does it need blind people like you. The point is not "Me not wanting to use those Tools", It's "People here pretending like nothing becomes easier by using those tools, when that's the very f*cking reason everyone uses them lol".

Where exactly do people do that? All I have ever seen is people giving the advice to use poe builder or any other tool that adds up the numbers of the tree. Because, so they say, then you will get a more accurate picture of what your build will look like in the end.

But never, ever, ever have I seen anyone saying that there is no difference. How could they?
Where did you get that?

Exactly, there is clear difference that people do it to make it easier, right? Then why are people even thinking they can oppose the proposition of an ingame reset which actually makes the game tougher because people are capable of becoming independent through practice, Just because you are allowed a weekly reset, doesn't mean you will find the perfect build in 10 minutes, it just combines the better skill trees to the game, along with rational spamming moderation with time limit,, not have to go do research because grinding or re roll. Sorry if i use harsh words, it becomes frustrating when you write pages on the same stuff tryna get it through to people, but the thing is, once you really believe in something, it becomes hard to just have a sudden change of opinion.


edit: i also remembered someone who kept arguing with me for like 2 pages, saying " How are all these tools any more helpful than a screenshot, they both show you a skill tree", or something very much like this.

I think you are an exception then. From what I can tell, some people just want to hack away. Others want to get to the top as quickly as possible. Others cannot bear the thought that people might think they are noobs.
All of them would copy&paste builds without a second thought, no matter how transparent or easy to use the skill tree is. And a weekly respec wouldn't help there either.

And the latter would have its disadvantages. People could level up using one spec, then completely change it for end-game. That would make their chars feel less like chars - with the implication of being dedicated to your choices, even if it is a copied build - and more a rather technical means to an end.
And there is much greater danger than now of a homogeneous build spectrum: People might be less inclined to stick to their choices when there is the constant temptation of being able to switch to the "better" flavor of the month build.

And there actually are people who make their own builds. For them not being able to freely respec is a good thing because it forces them to be careful when making their builds since it makes every choice a meaningful one.
For example: A build can take one route for levelling, then respec and take another route for endgame. Without free respecs you have to limit yourself when doing that, so as not to exceed your 18 respec points. You are forced to evaluate whether your respec points might better be used elsewhere, or if you want to keep them all so that you have them available when you want to shift the balance in your build, etc.
For some people pondering stuff like that is as much fun as for others doing good trades or just mindlessly killing stuff.
But with free respecs you would take that away from them.
So it would do some good for some people, but some bad for other people...

"

allionus wrote:

DoomCarpace, How can you say it is impossible to fail? Do you think it is so trivial to put points? It's more of a joke for you people because you can use the tools spamming, but yesterday, after the patch hit, i stayed in the game, spent 5 hours on the Tree with each character, That's TEN FUCKING HOURS OF PLANNING. What do YOU GUYS DO? Sit there on the tool and boom boom boom done, go around, boom boom, info collected, boom all ready set to go in there and act all high and mighty. And the final build i came up with both guys only gave me about 30% increase in dmg on my Scion(maybe that's from the +2Passive points i got later and put 2X 16% spell dmg), And my Shadow's condition only changed from dps to lower dps, and just a little more resist and hp Regen, My Flicker and Dual Actually do less dmg now lol,). So This would jut happen on a daily basis.

If they make resets available, even if weekly ones:

Im at 60, i go in fight mobs at merciless, realise build's not good, have 1 reset available this week, spend 5 hours making a build on my own, and even that turns out to be bad, lets assume. I Will Spend a Whole Week Getting Fucked non-stop because my build is too bad, but i know a reset is available next week, and i can reset it and try another build by learning from this week's mistakes.

What you people do right now :

You are at lv 60, fighting mobs at merciless, realise your builds not good/efficient either, but you know full reset is not a logical option, so you try a few times, and realise, No, this is not gonna work, i'll keep losing xp and never progress(unless group grind 247), so you log out with that character, transfer all items, everything of value to stash, Make new character, Play a day or three on easy mode, Party hopping and raping portals and Waypoints, have all the good gear from last time, and a Better Skill tree, And Good Calculations and future predictions with all the fancy tewwwls. I have also done it, i am not new to this game and neither were the other 5 people i did it with,lel.


This is perspective.
This is what you are missing and denying.
Think about it.
It will save us running in circles.

Since you have not played D3 I will clue you in on it. You are given your skills and runes(these change how your skills function) when you level up. So that by level 60 you have all skills and runes available. The only difference between one player and the next is load out and gear. All you have to choose is your six active skills, six runes (yes if you fail to choose a rune that skill will not be as good as one with a rune), and three passive skills. Paragon points are earned as you gain paragon levels and there is a round robin of spending them there are four categories and four stats to spend them in.

The skills and runes can be reset in a few clicks. So any consequences of a bad build can be fixed in a few clicks. Let's say you spent a few paragon points in the wrong place. No problem just a few clicks and they are redone as well. You never have to re-level a character again. Tell me how you can possibly fail in Diablo 3 when you can just fix it in a couple of seconds.

As much as you been complaining about screwing up your build in this game you make me begin to wonder when you said you played both 1 and 2. How could you have done that when in D2 there were no doubt many players that screwed up their builds and had to re-roll. I know I did that as well with a few sorc builds (Glacial Spike build I am looking at you).

You are wah wah'ing about having to do some research instead of getting all of that info handed to you on a silver platter just because you play their game. News flash everyone else along with you yourself have at least used the tools once.

I know you do no like failing and want to have GGG make the game fail proof. Maybe even to the point where all you have to do is to type in the type of character that you want to use. Then GGG would pick everything for automatically. Even spending the skill points for you. Making the game duck soup like D3.

Come on what tools are they using that makes it so easy? Tell us if you have understanding. Also prove that these tools are accurate as well.

Also I say take it like a man and learn to work without a weekly respec. I can handle having to re-roll because of a bad build or a build not being 100% optimal (this point I do not care too much about). All I am looking for out of my new witch build in the ambush league is a fun build to play that will give me what I want in the long run.

"

allionus wrote:

Oooh and about the Second bit, DoomCarpace.

Please, why don't you acknowledge the fact that There is no physical or non-physical evidence of challenge or difficulty in searching the forums and fidgeting/raping the poe tools.
The simple and undisputable thing is:

To find the impact of the same "10%+physical dmg or 4+% atk speed, You would alt tab, and come back with the answer 20 minutes later if not 2, i will be sweating my balls off and maybe take something i won't realise till the dick is half way up me anus lel. The thing is By Doing these apparently mandatory researches, people are(oh this is big)-->>>>>

ACTIVELY AND KNOWINGLY SEARCHING FOR AN EASIER SOLUTION TO THEIR SKILL PLACING/ITEMIZATION/ANY OTHER PREDICAMENT BY LOOKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ANSWERS AND THEORIES, REDUCING THE CHALLENGE IN THE PROCESS & THEN TELLING ME THAT A RESET MECHANIC IS GONNA DULL THEIR GAME, WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN, EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY PLAYED, BEEN PLAYING SOMETHING THAT THEY MADE EASIER FOR THEMSELVES BY ELIMINATING/REDUCING/CUTTING THE RISK OF FUCKING UP WITHOUT EVEN PAYING AN EVEN PRICE. . . Then i am called the one who wants it all easy, simply because of their blind-side. v;


Wake up, people ;v

You are of the mind that just because those tools are created by someone that the person that created them never screwed up once at all. And those tools are so good that they make you a god where it is impossible to screw up. No even the best ones here have messed up plenty of times. Some screw ups are not so bad so they can be happy farming to get the orbs to fix it. Or worse case scenario they can re-roll (cough, cough).

"

allionus wrote:

"

Jojas wrote:

"

allionus wrote:

Neither does it need blind people like you. The point is not "Me not wanting to use those Tools", It's "People here pretending like nothing becomes easier by using those tools, when that's the very f*cking reason everyone uses them lol".

Where exactly do people do that? All I have ever seen is people giving the advice to use poe builder or any other tool that adds up the numbers of the tree. Because, so they say, then you will get a more accurate picture of what your build will look like in the end.

But never, ever, ever have I seen anyone saying that there is no difference. How could they?
Where did you get that?

Exactly, there is clear difference that people do it to make it easier, right? Then why are people even thinking they can oppose the proposition of an ingame reset which actually makes the game tougher because people are capable of becoming independent through practice, Just because you are allowed a weekly reset, doesn't mean you will find the perfect build in 10 minutes, it just combines the better skill trees to the game, along with rational spamming moderation with time limit,, not have to go do research because grinding or re roll. Sorry if i use harsh words, it becomes frustrating when you write pages on the same stuff tryna get it through to people, but the thing is, once you really believe in something, it becomes hard to just have a sudden change of opinion.


edit: i also remembered someone who kept arguing with me for like 2 pages, saying " How are all these tools any more helpful than a screenshot, they both show you a skill tree", or something very much like this.

You just do not like taking the same journey as everyone else. Even the ones that make the tools no doubt screwed up more than once. Optimized builds just to not appear by blind chance.

"

allionus wrote:

I Can also Sense a little Idea that most people have right now.

One part of it being ;"Resets = instant perfect builds everybody = no challenge = no fun.



If someone thinks like this >> Are you serious?( to start off, many people copy op builds as we speak so that's not a solved problem in the first place). Secondly, Look back at everytime you clicked reset on the tools that you use, to calculate your optimal build in safe tool mode. Each one of those 'reset clicks' Would be me going in to a dungeon, Dying multiples of times, losing a level, then resetting my tree, then re-putting points With slight alterations and going in again, and dying and dying, not just making a new character and playing trivial land.

Here's a good example what a majority of this great "always making unique builds everyone because perfect system" game's People will look at and copy without second thought, because it has "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP" Sprayed all over it : http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/599443, I haven't read a single bit of that thread, i just googled " Most Copied Builds on Path of Exile" and this was the first or second page and copy pasted it here to show you HOW FUCKING EASILY I CAN BECOME POE GOD, I HAVE TO SPEND 10 SECONDS TYPING AND FINDING A PAGE, another 2 minutes LOGGING IN, and another 1 MINUTE APPLYING THE BUILD. WOW GUYS, THE THING YOU DEFEND, IT CREATES SUCH A "UNIQUE PLAYER ENVIRONMENT" When in reality every other guy will have "Referenced" their build from another person.



GGG, WP. Pls, Refute me, Pls do it. i wanna see it happen.

You seem to be of the attitude that those OP'd FoTM builds just come about by blind chance. No someone had to do the research and try out different things until they came up with those builds. They had to go through the same thing you do by playing the game and at times re-roll (cough cough).

Just like a politician you will not admit that the one with the OP'd build had to actually do the work and find it himself by many hours of trial and error.

You just want to be able to do the same thing that they did without the trial and error. You want GGG to make this game so easy that it is impossible to screw up. Maybe even putting special lights and sounds in the tree to show the optimal path for your chosen spec.

Prove to all of us that those copied builds just appeared by blind chance.

"

allionus wrote:

4: Many people will just copy (don't be ignorant, this is true) builds from another, since they get all their characters which they screwed up last time as i have been seeing people. ( This is Reality, disprove it otherwise)

5: Not a SINGLE person says "The passive tree is good, you should experiment different builds as it gives you freedom and is rewarding" oh no. What they say is : "Here, look at these handy tools and websites i used to make my build, you should use these calculators outside the game and pretend like it's not cheating too, so we can all become the same kind of people and defend each other"

Hum, not everyone follows a set build, because that's dumb and defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun to a large degree. Point 5 is just not true at all, A lot of people might say that, but definitely not all. The tools do certainly help, but I doubt everyone mentioning them uses them with extreme scrutiny to get everything perfect like you've implied throughout a large portion of your post.

I haven't looked at a single build and can get to level 70 these days without issue, took several characters before I understood the skill tree, game mechanics in general, itemization and also what the game expected of me. Learning it all and building my own successful character was pretty fun :)

Also, just because everyone for the most part uses the respec to mostly recreate what they already had, doesn't make that a bad thing. I'm not sure how it could even be a bad thing either. People are instinctively a creature of habit, nothing wrong with it.

"

Jojas wrote:

I think you are an exception then. From what I can tell, some people just want to hack away. Others want to get to the top as quickly as possible. Others cannot bear the thought that people might think they are noobs.
All of them would copy&paste builds without a second thought, no matter how transparent or easy to use the skill tree is. And a weekly respec wouldn't help there either.

And the latter would have its disadvantages. People could level up using one spec, then completely change it for end-game. That would make their chars feel less like chars - with the implication of being dedicated to your choices, even if it is a copied build - and more a rather technical means to an end.
And there is much greater danger than now of a homogeneous build spectrum: People might be less inclined to stick to their choices when there is the constant temptation of being able to switch to the "better" flavor of the month build.

And there actually are people who make their own builds. For them not being able to freely respec is a good thing because it forces them to be careful when making their builds since it makes every choice a meaningful one.
For example: A build can take one route for levelling, then respec and take another route for endgame. Without free respecs you have to limit yourself when doing that, so as not to exceed your 18 respec points. You are forced to evaluate whether your respec points might better be used elsewhere, or if you want to keep them all so that you have them available when you want to shift the balance in your build, etc.
For some people pondering stuff like that is as much fun as for others doing good trades or just mindlessly killing stuff.
But with free respecs you would take that away from them.
So it would do some good for some people, but some bad for other people...

I Still don't understand how it makes people play less carefully? If you are careless, you will make mistakes, and if you are trying your build, mistakes are there, and Just like No Respec, Even The Respec Option will Punish by Locking your character to that tree for a week, Which is longer than actually re rolling and grinding to the same point in the game, just with a new duplicate of almost the same tree, with fixes, but what nobody pays attention to ; the grinding part where you keep repeating the same circle every time you want to fix your mistakes. What nobody seems to acknowledge is that this makes people Grind, because it is NOT a voluntary re roll.

There is no Challenge in it, and not to forget the fact that it KEEPS YOU AWAY from the difficulty where you can test your build. SO basically you make a character, reach to a difficult stage, in an instant you realise your build is shit, and boom, re roll, People have almost become too used to it. So you build your character to level 50ish, nothing difficult, but still able to tell you whether you'll make it further in.


And people even seem to credit this process with "teaching" you something. What exactly is it that it teaches every one?

Instead of sitting with an incompetent champion in front of you, with 1 reset left for the week, who you have some possibility of fixing if you make the right decisions or you will lose them for a week, instead of having to decide what to do in order to be able to continue with the same character, you will just log out, make a new guy and hop hop back to the same place where you were stuck, so you keep having to clear an already cleared area every time you want to reset ( and this is even faster than the purposed solution) But that is VOLUNTARY! Shiet, If you really wanna reroll, roll the other classes, there's 7, which is 7 x 3 times full story on each class (norm,cru,merc) = 21 playthrough without re rolling a single class once. How many more times do you want to play the game thing again until you get sick of calling it fun?

there's also an option of making it optional, like in a different league.

But People here are so adamant in some idea that they still hoist, not even bothering to consider improvements/changes, which is pitiful in itself.


I guess GGG has made people too used to chucking away useless characters enough times to make them not care anymore.