Leech: GGG clarify please!

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

Nemmerle wrote:

Ummm...Mark...

Was the same mechanical change for life leech also applied to MANA leech? I ask because I seem to be leeching insufficient MANA now.

There was a mechanical change to leech, the mechanic, not specifically to only life leech.

Thanks. I can compensate. I guess with all of us so focused on the impact on life leech we didn't consider the impact on mana leech so much.

Can someone help me with understanding different life leech?

Is it additive between item life leech, blood rage life leech, and life leech gem?

And does anyone know if Bino's Kitchen Knife adds regen on top of life leech regen? I assume it's actually not a leech and just basic regen added.

"

Whoaness wrote:

Can someone help me with understanding different life leech?

Is it additive between item life leech, blood rage life leech, and life leech gem?

And does anyone know if Bino's Kitchen Knife adds regen on top of life leech regen? I assume it's actually not a leech and just basic regen added.

Yes, all leech you got adds together, 4% on blood rage, two claws with 6% LL each and 8% LL gem will enable you to leech 24% life with every attack you make. It's a global stat and every source of leech contributes to that number, the game only differentiates leech by damage type that can be leeched from, so elemental damage you do will leech only 8%. Vaal mods in this expansion may add some more specific damage types for leech, like 'leeches cold damage'.

The effect on Bino just adds a flat amount of life regen to your char equal in strength to poison you caused. Regen is separate from leech.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Leech still triggers on each and every Hit. Every Hit you land will grant a Leech effect for a duration based on Leech percentage and Maximum Life (or Mana). Only the 'strongest' (longest duration) will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing.
(the old system 'paused' the inactive Leech timers)

As long as you hit again before the first Leech timer is over, you will get a constant stream of replenishment. Especially if you're spewing forth multiple Projectiles that trigger multiple-Projectile Spells, that's not going to be an issue. Not all Hits are going to land simultaneously, after all.

For most builds with a reasonable amount of %Leech, the biggest change will be simply that you don't get replenishment long after combat; it'll end much sooner once the last monster falls.

Vipermagi is almost entirely correct.
The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life. Usually all leech is at the same rate, but the quality of the leech gems grants increased leech rate. Those will always be active over slower leeches, thus ensuring maximum life gain. As soon as they run out, one of the other leech effects that still has duration left will take over, if any.

They say ==> Only the 'strongest' [The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life.] will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing. <==

So, if you have items with life leech mods (20% normal replenishing rate,I guess) and a top Quality Life Leech Gem (24% replenishing rate) supporting a skill, using this skill will only trigger the gem leech, because it is the strongest. In other words, items leech mods become useless with a Q Leech Gem in action. Same wondering about Life leech passive skills (which, I guess, are at 20% rate).

Thanks, Mark, it is far more clear to me now.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

harvest wrote:

Each time you hit something, you generate one instance of life leech (and maybe one of mana as well), based on all the leech effects you have that apply to that hit. The change is to how leech from different hits interact. Now only the strongest at any given time is active and the others still tick down, just like ignite, where before it was still the case that only the strongest was ever active, but the others were 'paused' while inactive and queued up to occur fully afterwards.

And the light dawns in the swamp. I get it now!

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

harvest wrote:

They say ==> Only the 'strongest' [The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life.] will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing. <==

So, if you have items with life leech mods (20% normal replenishing rate,I guess) and a top Quality Life Leech Gem (24% replenishing rate) supporting a skill, using this skill will only trigger the gem leech, because it is the strongest. In other words, items leech mods become useless with a Q Leech Gem in action. Same wondering about Life leech passive skills (which, I guess, are at 20% rate).

No, because those will be the same leech.

Each time you hit something, you generate one instance of life leech (and maybe one of mana as well), based on all the leech effects you have that apply to that hit. The change is to how leech from different hits interact. Now only the strongest at any given time is active and the others still tick down, just like ignite, where before it was still the case that only the strongest was ever active, but the others were 'paused' while inactive and queued up to occur fully afterwards.

old leech = accrual queue system prioritized by duration (indirectly by leech rate as it affects duration) then fifo for all equal duration sources. eventually all heals play out until you are max life or out of accrued leeches.
new leech = parallel system prioritized by leech rate then duration. all leeches effectively 'time out' simultaneously but only the strongest (by shortest duration) takes effect.

TLDR - you can no longer infinitely roll leeches. a massive nerf to evasion/dodge builds that relied on this to synergize with the entropy system.

I can understand the changes to avoid massive mob pack infinite rolling before a boss but the new system is a little heavy handed. it would have been better to just shorten the max queue depth across all leech sources or change the roll to a true rolling mean.

basically leech got reworked to deal with the new VP. the problem is those of us using leech without VP get hosed in the process.

Actually from what I got from this thread, VP is now godly in regard to the leech mechanics.

If you are hitting 3 monsters or more, with more or less the same amount of damage and thus triggering around the same amount of leech, instead of getting one leech thread (and the other 2 ticking down in parallel), you get the leech from all of them instantaneously (albeit at 40%).

Sure, damage and leech can very drastically on each hit, but on average, thats 120% of your normal leech from one monster, instantaneously. Everything beyond 3 monsters is extra gravy. You don't lose any of your leech amounts to parallel threads.

Again, this is assuming that the previous VP mechanics regarding simultaneity apply.

And you don't have to worry about gem quality, reflect and whatnot.