Leech: GGG clarify please!

corrupted: life on hit on every piece of gear

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Vipermagi wrote:

Leech still triggers on each and every Hit. Every Hit you land will grant a Leech effect for a duration based on Leech percentage and Maximum Life (or Mana). Only the 'strongest' (longest duration) will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing.
(the old system 'paused' the inactive Leech timers)

As long as you hit again before the first Leech timer is over, you will get a constant stream of replenishment. Especially if you're spewing forth multiple Projectiles that trigger multiple-Projectile Spells, that's not going to be an issue. Not all Hits are going to land simultaneously, after all.

For most builds with a reasonable amount of %Leech, the biggest change will be simply that you don't get replenishment long after combat; it'll end much sooner once the last monster falls.

The other change is that of the relationship between DPS and %LS needed to hit the 20%/second cap while in combat. This may not be an issue during endgame when DPS scales so much more than health. But while leveling, this is big hit to survivability for builds that relied on stacking leeches from AOE/splash.

Or I am completely misunderstanding how things currency work (where the leech effects from each mob hit by the AOE simply got queued and did not actually stack)?

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JohnWeps wrote:

Not trying to be negativistic here but they probably have a lot on their hands now and won't answer any forum post until after the patch goes live.

Edit: on topic, assuming all hits occur at the same, I would guess:

a) no

b) no

c) first answer

tell that to reddit where they do post a little information/reply to questions.
I mean, it's not a lot to post. They should know the answer readily.

keep in mind, all this talk of DPS vs leech scaling... is PER HIT

so if you are using fast small AoE attacks you stand no chance of capping your leech


in order for the leech to last long enough such that you're still leeching up until your next attack you need to do at least (your HP*.2)/(leech %) single target DPS not counting shotgun attacks

for me with 3k life and 8.5% life leech that's 7058 DPS

for a skill like freezing pulse or incinerate thats a LOT of DPS

for refrence my incinerate tooltip is a measly 1.2k which gives me enough DPS to do lvl 70+ maps quickly yet that would only give me 17% of my potential life leech

I'd rather take vaal pact and get a 60% nerf than the current 83% nerf

Yeah please lah guys, saying the leech change, if we're understanding it correctly, does not affect much is the understatement of the century.

As we know the leech rate is fixed,a rate 20% total hp per sec regen until completion. What we know previously as the leech cap happens because we dissed out total dmg on short periods of time on all mobs that the leech keep queueing (there's no break between interval ). Thus we essentially constant regen at 20%max life per sec.

E.g. One has 4k hp, doing GMP freezing pulse at 1000 cold dmg per projectile hit, 4 cast per sec, hitting 1 monster only. This is already quite high dps for Freezing Pulse since one is dealing 20k dps shotgun. Assuming 8% leech from high lvl life leech gem. Each leech is a 0.1s regen interval of rate 800hp/s. The spell shotgun so there are 5 intervals of regen per cast, 20 per sec. So there's a queue of 2s to completely leech the total amount(1600hp) for 1s dps. Hence overflow and what we call leech cap, constant 800hp/s regen until full life.

Now leech doesn't queue anymore, and the shotgun projectiles hit almost simultaneously ( yeah arguing otherwise is silly, pls don't ) so leech rate is from 1 proj of the GMP freezing pulse essentially. Now we have 4 regen intervals per sec, getting 320 hp per sec.

This affects the non cap leech prepatch also. E.g.with 500 cold dmg per projectile,.cast 2 times per sec. Now 10 intervals of 0.05s regen, total regen 400hp per sec. After patch this number would be 2 interval of 0.05s regen, 80hp per sec and won't increase even if you're hitting more monster.

Extremely brutal, add in reflect and it's knock out. In the 1st case, he was doing 20k cold dps to one target, reflect back 3600 cold dmg per sec, after reduction of 80% cold res would be 720 life lost per sec, and a net lost of 400hp/s for a single target only. Increase targets get worse and worse since leech rate stay almost the same due to how fast freezing pulse travels. K even let it be 25% more for 400hp/s leech. Now for only 3 target one would be hit by 2160 reflect dmg post mitigation per sec. Yep, good luck with that.

Cybil's Paw does help much, take the first case. It only add 140hp/s, not nearly enough.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

Leech still triggers on each and every Hit. Every Hit you land will grant a Leech effect for a duration based on Leech percentage and Maximum Life (or Mana). Only the 'strongest' (longest duration) will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing.
(the old system 'paused' the inactive Leech timers)

As long as you hit again before the first Leech timer is over, you will get a constant stream of replenishment. Especially if you're spewing forth multiple Projectiles that trigger multiple-Projectile Spells, that's not going to be an issue. Not all Hits are going to land simultaneously, after all.

For most builds with a reasonable amount of %Leech, the biggest change will be simply that you don't get replenishment long after combat; it'll end much sooner once the last monster falls.

Vipermagi is almost entirely correct.
The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life. Usually all leech is at the same rate, but the quality of the leech gems grants increased leech rate. Those will always be active over slower leeches, thus ensuring maximum life gain. As soon as they run out, one of the other leech effects that still has duration left will take over, if any.

what about small hits that have no chance of capping leech rate? we're stuck with one leech effect at at time, because it's the strongest, but "strongest" is a relative term... incinerate and freezing pulse seem like they will be very bad off

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Vipermagi is almost entirely correct.
The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life. Usually all leech is at the same rate, but the quality of the leech gems grants increased leech rate. Those will always be active over slower leeches, thus ensuring maximum life gain. As soon as they run out, one of the other leech effects that still has duration left will take over, if any.

Does AOE damage where the damage occurs simultaneous count as multiple leech sources? (ie is my blood mage/avatar of fire/melee splash/infernal blow character a little useless now?)

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

Leech still triggers on each and every Hit. Every Hit you land will grant a Leech effect for a duration based on Leech percentage and Maximum Life (or Mana). Only the 'strongest' (longest duration) will actively replenish your Life/Mana, all others simply tick down and do nothing.
(the old system 'paused' the inactive Leech timers)

As long as you hit again before the first Leech timer is over, you will get a constant stream of replenishment. Especially if you're spewing forth multiple Projectiles that trigger multiple-Projectile Spells, that's not going to be an issue. Not all Hits are going to land simultaneously, after all.

For most builds with a reasonable amount of %Leech, the biggest change will be simply that you don't get replenishment long after combat; it'll end much sooner once the last monster falls.

Vipermagi is almost entirely correct.
The "strongest" leech is not defined by duration, but by how quickly it's replenishing life. Usually all leech is at the same rate, but the quality of the leech gems grants increased leech rate. Those will always be active over slower leeches, thus ensuring maximum life gain. As soon as they run out, one of the other leech effects that still has duration left will take over, if any.

Thanks Mark. As others have pointed out, there are attacks and spells that hit a bunch of monsters simultaneously (flameblast, rain of arrows, discharge, etc).

Assuming the same amount of damage is done to all monsters simultaneously, does that mean that in effect we would only be leeching from one monster since all the leech effects would end simultaneously?

Thanks!