Bad loot - a response

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Peace_Frog wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

Riddle me this - If you guys totally don't care at all about what other people have, why do you have a problem with people wanting tweaked drop rates? Wouldn't effect you in the least as you are free to /destroy any item you find, no?

I'm here for the challenge. Nerf RNG and make gear easier to get, the challenge goes away. I don't want to be able to faceroll with all the highest-end uniques on every character. I like that I have to scrape by with whatever garbage drops, or what I can trade for; and more importantly, that I'm able to scrape by with the garbage that does drop. If a super high-end unique drops that I can use, of course I will, but the odds are very against me getting one. Which is how it should be.

In all honesty I do not have that problem, I can make a character with shitty gear and min max him until he is faceroll. Gear enables DIFFERENT builds, which is what I am after. Maybe I am just strange, but I genuinely enjoy facerolling. I'm tired of being stuck facerolling with the same builds over and over, though, due to lack of items that enable other builds to faceroll or come close to it. It feels a waste of my time to play a character like that when I could clear content 4x faster with my facerollers and get 4x or more the drops.

I ran to maps in the one week nemesis + domination race , self found and solo up to maps.

Then i was forced to trade if i wanted to progress more because no way in hell would my character be "map viable" with the normal grind.

Here is another observation for you, i opened a 66 map, solo i cleared it maybe 35% and then decided i can not possibly run this (i was already lvl 67 at this point farming docks for maybe 18+ hours) due to danger of getting one shotted by a crit.

Then i joined a public party running maps and i was facerolling lvl 70+ maps with ease.
No danger at all. My physical reduction boosted to 43% from the normal 9%, my resis where capped at 77 suddenly instead of 75, and my dps suddenly doubled (1150 LA went to 2400, single target frenzy from 2450 to 5600)

If anything, solo should get +350%iir and for every team member that joins u should lose 50% :E. (not serious, but still you get my point)

I think the perfect solution to this problem is letting the quest rewards be the same items for every single character, medium rolled rare items. Pretty much like the descent rares functioned, you could build around them since you where assured you got them.

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reboticon wrote:

In all honesty I do not have that problem, I can make a character with shitty gear and min max him until he is faceroll. Gear enables DIFFERENT builds, which is what I am after. Maybe I am just strange, but I genuinely enjoy facerolling. I'm tired of being stuck facerolling with the same builds over and over, though, due to lack of items that enable other builds to faceroll or come close to it. It feels a waste of my time to play a character like that when I could clear content 4x faster with my facerollers and get 4x or more the drops.

Well, what we take from the game is fundamentally different, so arguing that point is useless.

I think the appeal I get from how rare these items are is that I never count on them. I'm running a Marauder right now, with no plans to run anything drastically different. But if a Bringer of Rain were to drop tomorrow, I'd immediately plan to roll a Shadow/Ranger/Duelist and start researching builds. I'm not going to create a character with a build that's dependent on a piece of gear before I get said piece of gear. That's just foolish, but it's how a lot of people play.

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Well, what we take from the game is fundamentally different, so arguing that point is useless.

I think the appeal I get from how rare these items are is that I never count on them. I'm running a Marauder right now, with no plans to run anything drastically different. But if a Bringer of Rain were to drop tomorrow, I'd immediately plan to roll a Shadow/Ranger/Duelist and start researching builds. I'm not going to create a character with a build that's dependent on a piece of gear before I get said piece of gear. That's just foolish, but it's how a lot of people play.

There is also a difference between having a BoR drop (agreed this should be somewhat gated, not as much as it is now but still)

Or finding an upgrade in merciless to that helm you are using from cruel act 1.

If i have a 4-link helmet with 50 life + 1 resist, due to a number of issue's i would almost never find an upgrade for it, unless i start trading. This diminishes the fun experienced in the game, because let's be honest here, crafting your own gear or finding it is much more fun then trading for it.

I never went "wooohooooo :DDDDDDDDDD" after i traded for a piece of gear. In fact it is usually the opposite effect.
"uh i have to trade again since i cant rng an upgrade after 18 hours"
(i am using this 18 hours because of the week race, in the normal ladders i have farmed over 3000+ hours most likely, also with very little result, and total RNG reliance)

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Boem wrote:

I would create a new character and experience the build diversity, which is gated now behind 2000 hours of play (which may or may not result into a finished character) leaving me with very little pleasure to start all over again and experience the game with alternate set-ups.

That is apparently where our definition of "finished" differs. I have a lvl 80 witch that is doing lvl 74 maps solo without much trouble and I have a 4L armor with none of my gear being worth more than 3-4 chaos, most worth 1-2. And this is with full IIR/IIQ gear, I could surely steamroll higher content faster if I dropped my goldwyrm, perandus, aurseize, gold rings and neck, and MF helm.

If "finished" to you is beating double dominus lvl 78 map with ease and having 50k+ DPS then obviously that is going to take you a lot longer to achieve. That isn't the game designers fault, you are setting your "minimum" requirements EXTREMELY high and that kind of gear shouldn't just be dropping commonplace.

I'm sure those aren't your actual goals but if your build can't even be executed without X item (except maybe RF, and that unique is not prohibitively expensive) then you should probably take another look at your passive tree instead of saying give me more loot.

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Boem wrote:

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Well, what we take from the game is fundamentally different, so arguing that point is useless.

I think the appeal I get from how rare these items are is that I never count on them. I'm running a Marauder right now, with no plans to run anything drastically different. But if a Bringer of Rain were to drop tomorrow, I'd immediately plan to roll a Shadow/Ranger/Duelist and start researching builds. I'm not going to create a character with a build that's dependent on a piece of gear before I get said piece of gear. That's just foolish, but it's how a lot of people play.

There is also a difference between having a BoR drop (agreed this should be somewhat gated, not as much as it is now but still)

Or finding an upgrade in merciless to that helm you are using from cruel act 1.

If i have a 4-link helmet with 50 life + 1 resist, due to a number of issue's i would almost never find an upgrade for it, unless i start trading. This diminishes the fun experienced in the game, because let's be honest here, crafting your own gear or finding it is much more fun then trading for it.

I never went "wooohooooo :DDDDDDDDDD" after i traded for a piece of gear. In fact it is usually the opposite effect.
"uh i have to trade again since i cant rng an upgrade after 18 hours"
(i am using this 18 hours because of the week race, in the normal ladders i have farmed over 3000+ hours most likely, also with very little result, and total RNG reliance)

My helm's better than your helm! lol... Best (or 2nd best) item I've found.


Which is kind of sad in and of itself.

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Boem wrote:

There is also a difference between having a BoR drop (agreed this should be somewhat gated, not as much as it is now but still)

Or finding an upgrade in merciless to that helm you are using from cruel act 1.

If i have a 4-link helmet with 50 life + 1 resist, due to a number of issue's i would almost never find an upgrade for it, unless i start trading. This diminishes the fun experienced in the game, because let's be honest here, crafting your own gear or finding it is much more fun then trading for it.

I never went "wooohooooo :DDDDDDDDDD" after i traded for a piece of gear. In fact it is usually the opposite effect.
"uh i have to trade again since i cant rng an upgrade after 18 hours"
(i am using this 18 hours because of the week race, in the normal ladders i have farmed over 3000+ hours most likely, also with very little result, and total RNG reliance)

That's why I'm a proponent of making crafting more accessible. I'd like to see a first time player with 10 Chaos orbs and an Eternal Orb be just as likely to try and upgrade an existing piece of gear as he is to use the currency to buy a new one from somebody. People should be spending as much currency on gear as they do trading it in the shops.

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That is apparently where our definition of "finished" differs. I have a lvl 80 witch that is doing lvl 74 maps solo without much trouble and I have a 4L armor with none of my gear being worth more than 3-4 chaos, most worth 1-2. And this is with full IIR/IIQ gear, I could surely steamroll higher content faster if I dropped my goldwyrm, perandus, aurseize, gold rings and neck, and MF helm.

If "finished" to you is beating double dominus lvl 78 map with ease and having 50k+ DPS then obviously that is going to take you a lot longer to achieve. That isn't the game designers fault, you are setting your "minimum" requirements EXTREMELY high and that kind of gear shouldn't just be dropping commonplace.

I'm sure those aren't your actual goals but if your build can't even be executed without X item (except maybe RF, and that unique is not prohibitively expensive) then you should probably take another look at your passive tree instead of saying give me more loot.

Please note that i do not mean offense by this next sentence, but you are not playing on any hardcore ladder. And i don't mean that as an insult, just that there is a difference both in market and gearing a character.

I cannot power zerg content in hopes of finding an upgrade so i no longer have to zerg. I have to constantly add up every tiny little amount of EHP so i can enter a next difficulty level.
Without to much risk at dying.

Here is the thing, you can zerg content for higher Ilvl drops, which have a higher chance of having a "medium" good roll, when i do the same i risk dying and losing sometimes 250+ hours of gameplay (since i play mostly solo self-found, usually until i hit a wall and that wall appears pre-maps most of the time) for a RNG shot of an upgrade.

Both our cases differ, but my point was i would totally love to experience the replay ability in this game, sadly you are more likely to burn out on one char, that making another to experience the same "run" does not look all that attractive.

And i am not talking about doing double lvl 78 map, just normal minimal upgrades would give a lot of positive experiences to the player, which currently do not happen, upgrades are acquired by trading.

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My helm's better than your helm! lol... Best (or 2nd best) item I've found.

Verified


Which is kind of sad in and of itself.

That's a damn fine helmet, and i would consider that a "endgame" piece for any of my builds, i have great appreciation for what others perceive as "medium" items since i play solo self-found most of the time. And that most definitely exceeds the "medium" category by a factor of 5.

edit : cannot quote the helmet apparently :E

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reboticon wrote:

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Measuring self-worth and accomplishment against the RNG gains of others is the super-highway to satisfaction.

Spoiler

Right?

Riddle me this - If you guys totally don't care at all about what other people have, why do you have a problem with people wanting tweaked drop rates? Wouldn't effect you in the least as you are free to /destroy any item you find, no?

Because simply tweaking drop rates is not going to adequately address your issues of feeling like you never get "good" drops. In order to increase your satisfaction with the drop system you would need not only an increase in the number, but also the "quality" of drops, and then you would still groan over not getting "optimal" drops of 6 top-tier mods, all of use to your toon, on the highest level base available.

Your complaints over loot have always been two-fold (at least, since I have been on these forums):
1. I never find enough loot
2. The loot that I do find is never good enough, nor what I am really looking for.

Increasing drop rates may resolve issue #1, but will do nothing to influence #2.

Increasing drop rates while simultaneously improving end result mod rolls would address both issues, but it also injects an insane amount of power creep into the game. That power creep would quickly result in you complaining that you can now totally faceroll all content to lvl 100 and there is no more content to keep you engaged.

What is that popular definition of "insanity" again? Something along the lines of "insanity is consistently engaging in the same activity with the expectation of different results", I think. Obviously those of us that are OK with the current system are the crazies, right?

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Peace_Frog wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

Riddle me this - If you guys totally don't care at all about what other people have, why do you have a problem with people wanting tweaked drop rates? Wouldn't effect you in the least as you are free to /destroy any item you find, no?

I'm here for the challenge...I like that I have to scrape by with whatever garbage drops, or what I can trade for

You're here for the challenge, and then proceed directly to trade-to-win mode? Wow. Hardcore.