[1.3.0]PewPewPews official Starter-Friendly Incinerate Build | Stronger than ever!

I plan on running this build when the new league comes out, but I think I am going to make a few alterations to the skill tree. The gear and idea will be the same, but I have a few thoughts based on my previous experience with incinerators (have 2 so far.... I have a thing for shooting fire from my hands)

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgABAecFLQhnEZYYPBpVHNwelCFgJDwnqSmlLIUsnC0fLagvbzWSNug64UCgQYdEq0ZxR35JUU3jTipVrlYtWK9aGlptYEthIWSjZU1qk20ZbmlvnnC7dO108XgNeu9_xoIegwmE2YTvhTKI8Y-mkyeTOp65n8uio6ZXp1ypbqvFrD-sWax_sZC0DLXytkG3PrfWvSe-p8APwfPDOsS4ykrSTdXt1fjZE9sL21ncV-GI52PyRfno_gr-jw==


1. High mana regen can be reached without Discipline when using Infernal Mantle if you grab a few %mana nodes. My build has 104% mana and 200% regen on the tree, with another 40% regen available for 2 points if needed. I take Grace instead of discipline.

2. Obviously, since we can't evade, I'll take Iron Reflexes. I take the frenzy nodes north of MoM to get there. I also take the frenzy charge bandit reward. This is leading to.. yup, you guessed it....

3. Blood rage. The tree currently has 2.5% life regen. To sustain BR, we need a little more life regen and a bit of chaos resistance. This is of course for late game play, but 25% cast speed is huge for DPS and hitting our 3 stacks. I choose to take the 1% life regen node at the duelist starting area. I go through the armor, take the worthless 'Master of the Arena', and head up. This also puts us right next to another wonderful mana node. The armor will increase our iron reflex'd grace.

4. We will need the gem space, so I choose to remove the cwdt - end cry - immortal call group. Immortal call will be short much of the time and only happen after the hit. Plus, the cooldown on end cry really hurts this strategy. Also, we will be teleporting away most likely so by the time the big thing is hitting us again IC will be off.

5. Since we have the extra mana/regen, mana leech won't be necessary. This opens a slot for added chaos/faster casting and makes getting the right colors on the mantle since blue is easier than green.

I feel that the added armor and cast speed from frenzy charges can really make this build shine both offensively and defensively. The faster casting can obviously be a problem against lightning thorns, but then we can switch out an already leveled up added lightning to replace faster casting and not activate blood rage. Combining our extra armor with an granit flask will help us tank those big hits from a fatty. I'm not able to link a tree, but will when I get the chance. Hopefully you find this variation interesting.
Last edited by Mettle82 on Feb 26, 2014, 11:34:00 PM
Regarding the amount of damage taken and life steal. I calculated 1798 damage per second instead of almost 1700, maybe because I factored in armor? Not a huge difference though. I'd argue in most cases, we aren't taking repeated large hits that often due to CWDT+LW and CWDT+Enduring Cry+Immortal Call. With a good granite flask (+100% armor) you can take a sustained DPS of almost 2200.

For the large physical hits, can anyone provide some estimates on how much they are actually being hit (per-mitigation)?

Here is the spreadsheet. For armor I used 1200 by roughly adding up the values provided in SilkTopHat's gear. Please let me know if you find any error.

I pulled some information from the wiki (regarding armor and AA) and from this post.

My experience with CWDT+LW has been fairly positive. The only time it's been an issue is in party, I may get ported into other groups fairly easily.
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Nonetheless, it’s a double-edged sword; even if you want to leave a fight, many enemies can prevent you from doing so.

I can leave a fight any time I want, while holding down incinerate I manually cast LW. I have enough mana regen to hold down incinerate and LW from place to place continuously (without the mana leech gem and while running a level 21 Arctic Armour). I also added Culling Strike to my Codt LW and it's really nice. Here's my current gear setup if anyone is interested.
Spoiler
My chaos resist is about -4% so I'm able to run Blood Rage.
Last edited by IchiMorghulis on Feb 26, 2014, 6:11:56 PM
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@ChillQuill: You lack life. I recommend swapping asenath's touch for a glove with high life and resists, and get some rings with life as well. 2K is just not enough, no matter which build you follow :>

Don't worry, I will keep this topic updated, even through the 1.1 release :D


Thank you so much for replying, I'll look to replace that gear. I'll also be taking the passive reset incase you end up having to update the tree.
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SilkTopHat wrote:
Personally, I am looking for something tougher, as I would like to handle 74+ maps with difficult mods more safely.


I've done pretty much everything there is to do in this game with it apart from maybe double Palace Dominus, and it's the tankiest build I've played. Not saying that there aren't better ones ofc and I disagree with some of the gear and skill choices in the OP (like I ditched armor completely in favor of ES, swapped around some cwdt links) but the survivability is sheer insane. Anything that doesn't outright one-shot you will have a hard time killing you and there are very few instances where that happens (like Touch of God - but how many builds can facetank that with damage mods on the map?).

As long as you can survive the initial hit, all defenses/curses kick in and you will leech back to full before the next one. Only trouble then are maps with crazy mod combos like temp chains + half leech + mob damage.

Low lvl Frostwall btw. is surprisingly powerful, it forces mobs to stop attacking and move around it which is more breathing room than IC gives you.

Shop closed until further notice. Check out my Dominus musical tribute instead:
https://soundcloud.com/hackproducer0815/dominus
Bloodrage... interesting :D

Ah, why I love frost wall so much, is it's ability to block projectiles. Most of the time, you are standing in the middle of a huge group, having a wall up, blocks a decent amount of ranged damage output - also giving more opening to teleport away if the need arises.
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But there is one thing I wondered. What kinds of maps did you exactly run? Like I said, my gear is far from max - it's not bad either, but they can all get turned up a few notches. I'd say yours are similar, or even better than mine. But I was surprised when you said that you couldn't consistently run 74+ maps. I'll be honest with you, I died my share of times, mostly because of silly stuff, like face tanking double piety, both in their archer form(one, okay. But two? Fuck that shit), or doing a ele weakness map(my lig is capped at 80, so in an ele weakness map it goes down to... 30% or so)+Blood magic with lightning thorns(used all portals, still managed to finish the map). And yes, Heavy hitters scare me, every time I have to fight them. But, honestly, I never died to them.

I have to say, I barely ever run vulnerability maps, or -Max + monsters deal extra cold damage(Well, I try to, usually I forget about it, and run the map anyways). And even in those maps, it's only dangerous with heavy hitters or anything. And I've run a lot of high maps lately :>

So can you describe the situations you've been in? As in what monsters killed you, with what mods etc. As far as I've seen the maps, most maps are quite easy :>

My issue with the CwDTs is that they really don’t do a very good job reducing the damage you receive from heavy hitters for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

I have been running a variety of high-level maps with any mod that shows up with the sole exception Blood Magic. I’ve been avoiding Temporal Chains and No Regeneration where convenient to do so, but that’s more of a personal preference than anything else – when the other affixes on a map are good, I won’t reroll a map if I end up with those. My critique is not focused on this build’s ability to handle high-level maps in general but specifically the difficult situations that can arise if conditions are appropriate (particular monster type, presence of a rare with an aura, certain map affixes, et cetera).

The situation that most frequently kills me is as such: early on in clearing a map, there is a large area with a significant number of monsters distributed evenly throughout it. There are ranged monsters capable of triggering CwDT + LW quickly (in only a few strikes) mixed with monsters sporting strong physical or chaos damage hits. When I come across strong melee monsters like this, I begin casting Incinerate from a distance so that, at the very least, I have full stacks before being sucked into a series of warps. At this point, the ranged enemies close to attack range and begin the dance, so to speak. I warp to a new location that is within easy reach of a melee monster. It strikes me and warps me away, but the ranged monsters warp me again shortly thereafter – back into the range of the melee monsters. The point here is that I’m taking large hits more or less as soon as Immortal Call expires. I can do my best to keep life, mana, and a Granite flask effect active, but if I don’t score enough kills to refill my flasks the situation is not sustainable. Additionally, this warp chain often separates me from any other players with whom I am running the map.

One situation that stands out in particular was a Residence map wherein I died to Undying Aristocrats and statues because of a pair of nearby totems – Allies Deal Substantial Extra Physical Damage and the totem that guarantees critical strikes. I recognize that such a situation is unlikely to occur and I was unlucky to encounter it. However, a build that had more robust physical defenses or was better able to escape a situation like that could have survived.

It’s also worth noting that I frequently play in a party of either two or three players. This has a large impact on monster health and my ability to refill flasks quickly.

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Sasazuka wrote:
Regarding the amount of damage taken and life steal. I calculated 1798 damage per second instead of almost 1700, maybe because I factored in armor? Not a huge difference though. I'd argue in most cases, we aren't taking repeated large hits that often due to CWDT+LW and CWDT+Enduring Cry+Immortal Call. With a good granite flask (+100% armor) you can take a sustained DPS of almost 2200.

For the large physical hits, can anyone provide some estimates on how much they are actually being hit (per-mitigation)?

Here is the spreadsheet. For armor I used 1200 by roughly adding up the values provided in SilkTopHat's gear. Please let me know if you find any error.

I pulled some information from the wiki (regarding armor and AA) and from this post.

My experience with CWDT+LW has been fairly positive. The only time it's been an issue is in party, I may get ported into other groups fairly easily.

I arrived at 1700 DPS as a rough estimate. However, I specifically did not account for armor; armor is generally ineffective at protecting against high-damage hits, especially with such a low total. I wouldn’t factor in my armor at all because it only leads to a less conservative estimate of survivability. Similarly, while accounting for the Granite Flask effect is interesting and good to know, I strongly disagree with the label of ‘sustainable’ you attach to the 2200 DPS limit of survivability. Flasks are inherently short-lived and are only close to being sustainable in the long term for builds that score many critical hits. For others – this one included – flasks are fleeting and should not be a significant portion of a build’s defense.

I agree. My experience has been the same. I contend is that it’s excellent up to a point, but after that, it quickly becomes a liability.

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IchiMorghulis wrote:

I can leave a fight any time I want, while holding down incinerate I manually cast LW.

Go find a few packs of Undying Evangelists on a Vulnerability map and show me that you don’t get pulled into them without specifically avoiding the group or warping away from their attacks. I can leave most fights just fine as well. The issue presents itself when packs become large and any individual monster is capable of triggering the CwDT LW.

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holocaustus wrote:
I've done pretty much everything there is to do in this game with it apart from maybe double Palace Dominus, and it's the tankiest build I've played. Not saying that there aren't better ones ofc and I disagree with some of the gear and skill choices in the OP (like I ditched armor completely in favor of ES, swapped around some cwdt links) but the survivability is sheer insane. Anything that doesn't outright one-shot you will have a hard time killing you and there are very few instances where that happens (like Touch of God - but how many builds can facetank that with damage mods on the map?).

As long as you can survive the initial hit, all defenses/curses kick in and you will leech back to full before the next one. Only trouble then are maps with crazy mod combos like temp chains + half leech + mob damage.

Low lvl Frostwall btw. is surprisingly powerful, it forces mobs to stop attacking and move around it which is more breathing room than IC gives you.

You assume that the pack of monsters that triggered the warp is contained and tidy, and that when they trigger the CwDT LW, it puts you safely away from the group. This is usually how it works, but in certain situations – the situations which I described in my previous post and again in this one – it is not the case: if the monsters are spread out enough that warping only puts you in locations still in immediate threat, you don’t have time to let the Leech gems heal you. Map affixes only exacerbate the issue.

Yes, I’m fairly fond of Frost Wall in defensive trigger gem links. I’ve had good experiences so far with swapping the CwDT LW for a second Frost Wall gem in melee-heavy areas. It’s also a fairly funny configuration to kill Dominus with, as his lightning stream attack triggers many casts in rapid succession, which can quickly push him all the way off the screen.
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SilkTopHat wrote:
It’s also worth noting that I frequently play in a party of either two or three players. This has a large impact on monster health and my ability to refill flasks quickly.

I think that may well be the crux of the difference between your experience and mine. I play 90% solo and I believe that's where this build truly shines which suits me perfectly (the "solo everything" part in the topic was what originally caught my eye). In a group setting where you can easily get separated from the pack by LW and having to kill mobs with 6 times the hp by yourself, as well as Incinerate's spin-up time compared to other dps abilities, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
Shop closed until further notice. Check out my Dominus musical tribute instead:
https://soundcloud.com/hackproducer0815/dominus
Aye. I haven't done much testing in party's myself. Mostly since I often/always play solo with this build. The few times I did play in a party, felt lacking. The mobs just didn't die fast enough, most friendly aura's did nothing for me(except for haste).. I agree, this build is less effective for party play. Mostly since you have to stand longer periods of time in a group before they fall.

Have you tried it without the LW in the CwDT? What about swapping Discipline for IR?

I'll see if I can get anything better suited for party play, once the patch hits :)


Ah btw: When I face evangelists, I prefer them teleporting me next to them. It's the only way I can kill them, while they have their nasty bubbles up :>
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Looking for cheap builds/builds for beginners? Check out one of my guides! /806789
Last edited by Appels_Zijn_Gezond on Feb 27, 2014, 1:24:07 PM
I'm really not finding Discipline to do much for me. It adds a little mana regen, but my regen is SO high already (I have it all both rings, ammy, and wand) that I just dont find it does much other than lower my mana pool. I have a total of 200% mana regen just on my gear.

I often wonder if I wouldn't be better off with Haste.

What do you guys think?

(note: I do not use Inner Force)

edit: my gear

Spoiler
Last edited by toddx318 on Feb 27, 2014, 2:46:58 PM

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