A self-found purist's feedback [Long]

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TheAnuhart wrote:

We have all seen the 'go back to D3, casual' and 'D3 AH -> that way'.
Well, we are about to see such as 'go play path of shopping, this is a loot finder'.

:D TEH IRONY!

When D3 shoppers will come, the'll demand an AH system too. No way people used to D3 AH will want to use this spamchat bartering thing...

Anyway, PoE is a competitive trading game. It will never be solo self-found friendly, because the financial model choosen by GGG (cosmetic mtx), requires people to party and go shopping together and compete on ladders.

I'm fine with this. Dont care about ladders or candy effects, but I understand that a lot of other players do. I'm capable and enjoying self-found play up until mid-endgame (when it starts to get really expensive). What I'm not fine with is the endgame being a massive currency sink in service of the economy, unreachable content unless you start to shop and trade.

Maybe the new changes in 1.0.2 will bring cheaper endgame, accessible for all players (not just the top pyramid of the economy simulator). But I have my doubts.

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tmaciak wrote:

And the best prove is if we see, what Chris sees as "challenges" in temporary leagues. It's not challenging at all, considering state of game, it's pure grind and trade fest. What a challenge, buy 90 uniques... But still, a bunch of players is going for those "challenges".

This actually had me in stitches laughing when Anar/Ons came out.
Then when later Chris refereed to them as something like 'extremely challenging'.

My first response when the challenges were announced was "a shopping achievement, be fucked, lol'.

There wasn't a single one on there that I wouldn't do in just normal passive play solo self found, albeit in longer than the 4 months for some (I don't play HC (or the temp leagues), but getting all characters to 60+ self found on standard with no deaths and no log-outs more than covers being rushed in bought levelling gear). Every single challenge on there was able to be trivialised further from their triviality by trading, rushing, swapping, boosting, helping. Wtb exile kill, selling rushes, let me put x map in the device, lol. Then the unique list to buy, omg, /facepalm.

As for the achievements that appeared in standard with 1.0, lolwut?
Every so often a banner pops up with a noise congratulating me for doing, nothing really.

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Novalisk wrote:

D3 is not the greener pasture for self-found, even with the auction house out of the picture.

D3's items are too one-dimensional, so their tradeability factor is through the roof. This means upgrades will still be easily found through trading even without the auction house (I address PoE's similar issues here).

I'm sure blizzard will try to implement some account-bound crafting mechanics to circumvent this, but it won't fix such a core problem within their game.

I think they are different extremes.

D3 has an absolute TON of universal items, with maybe the only difference being which primary stat it has on it. While POE instead of the difference being which primary stat it has on it it is what primary stat the item requires and what color sockets the item has.

Both have the same problem that there are only a handful of desirable mods and everyone wants the same ones. The top 4 Being Life, Lightning Resist, Cold Resist, Fire Resist.

Blizzard's itemization is a huge problem because it's extremely 1 dimensional. But POE's isn't THAT much better and definitely has its own problems in variety.

Famous, depends on th eitem.

For the armour slot on the body, i will agree. There are only some desirable mods, those being '+life, +ES/%ES, +Ar/%Ar, +EV/%EV and +res'

But then for other items theres way more dimensions.

On gloves theres +phys, +eledmg, +aspd, +acc which are all not globally good, but good in some situations (the above armour slot still applies)

Boots theres a tradeoff, you can't get life, AR, AR% and MS, but boots are still very one dimensional.

Rings have a ton of different useful mods to them.

Shields have a decent variety

Helms not bad

Amulets ridiculous again

Belts have a lot of things which are under appreciated, but sort of limited.


Its not as bad as you make out

PoE's itemization is actually very good, and it would benefit from something like an AH system to make the most of its diverse itemization and would theoretically open the door to very unique builds as it would allow players to obtain build enabling uniques faster and easier

++Jakabov.
Well written post..I agree.
Playing Sfound from the beginning ,HC deleting my chars if they die.
I played in party a few times (well last time was + 1 year ago) But felt that is was "easymode"
I cant understand why there isn´t a sfLeague..I dont want a trading sim..
A solo only league would be the "real" League..No "PAY to win/Party/Trade to Win as it is in current state. It wouldnt hurt GGG to implement leagues for Solo and why not for Duo..
I cant see how it would hurt the game , nor GGG...
Cheers ,
L

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Real_Wolf wrote:

Famous, depends on th eitem.

For the armour slot on the body, i will agree. There are only some desirable mods, those being '+life, +ES/%ES, +Ar/%Ar, +EV/%EV and +res'

But then for other items theres way more dimensions.

On gloves theres +phys, +eledmg, +aspd, +acc which are all not globally good, but good in some situations (the above armour slot still applies)

Boots theres a tradeoff, you can't get life, AR, AR% and MS, but boots are still very one dimensional.

Rings have a ton of different useful mods to them.

Shields have a decent variety

Helms not bad

Amulets ridiculous again

Belts have a lot of things which are under appreciated, but sort of limited.


Its not as bad as you make out

You can say the same thing about certain item slots in D3 as well.

I agree that it's better in PoE, but in PoE every piece has a requisite of like 2-3 base mods on the item to be good (+max life, +resist) which is something I consider to be a bit of an itemization problem, and one of the reasons so many people scoff at non-weapon uniques.

Posting in full support of the OP.

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PoE is way too stingy with the gear, much like early D3

is core to my feelings. I'd respectfully point out to GGG that in this industry an issue like this can reach a tipping point where a large portion of the player base suddenly catch on and decide they've had enough, leading to a cascade of players stopping playing. Once lost it's far harder to get players back than it is to hook them initially or keep them.

There is only a limited window of time to deal with this and it isn't months or even many weeks long.




I'd like to underline I think PoE is an absolutely brilliant game, but it's fundamentally flawed by the extreme rarity of useful loot dropping.

I would **adore** a self found only league with better loot drops. In one fell swoop this would also TOTALLY do away with the problem of RMT in that league which is helping to driving massive inflation in the leagues since release.



As an aside I don't think an AH would change anything in this game, just further promote inflation and RMT.

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BolshoiToo wrote:

Quite looking forward to next year now, RoS is looking good, as much as it pains me to say. Blizz are putting the loot find back in the genre and leaving the shopping sim to GGG.

Very, very sadly this is how I feel. 'Sadly' because I abhor Blizzard and Kotick and am a big fan of GGG and what they've been doing.


In loot terms earlier betas of PoE looked like we were getting back to D2:LoD, which is what millions of people have been looking for for years, but sadly with release PoE is looking more and more like D3 1.0.

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jacksj3 wrote:

I'd like to underline I think PoE is an absolutely brilliant game, but it's fundamentally flawed by the extreme rarity of useful loot dropping.

The whole game is balanced around trading economy.

That's why drops suck, why you dont find upgrades, why crafting is a sucky expensive currency sink and why engame is an expensive wall in the service of a pyramidical trading scheme.

It doesnt matter if the game has a slow bartering system or a fast AH trading sytem, it still would have a global economy and be balanced around it. And that's the root of the problem - trading is more important than ARPG looting. And that is precisely what Blizz is now fixing in RoS.

It seems things have come full circle.