GGG: You guys used to be good at communicating. Things seem to have taken a dip as of late

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Hodari wrote:

Perhaps another reason they've been talking less about what they have planned is that the community itself has gotten a lot worse lately. People used to be more willing to try things out FIRST and then have a somewhat rational discussion about it and provide meaningful feedback. Now it's starting to look more like the Diablo 3 forums(at least like they were back when I still played...) where people massively overreact to EVERYTHING, every unique item or build is either "op" or "shit" with little or no room in between, any gameplay changes(even minor ones or ones which adjust things both ways) are dismissed as "massive nerf to my favorite skill" even before people have tried it to see how it actually will affect things, and anyone who disagree with you at all is a "troll". Is it any wonder that they're a bit more reluctant to talk about things than they used to be?

And now imagine you making a game for this people. One is eager to communicate with those. ^^

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Learn to savour the anticipation and the surprise, eh? Rattle the presents if you want, but don't expect Mom and Dad to outright tell you what's in the box.

Besides, as the date draws near, I've no doubt GGG will tease things to drum up interest.

Until then, you have 11.5 to look forward to in a few days, and 11.6 has already been slightly revealed.

I disagree on that point. I mean you need to know something before you can look forward to it.
If everything is too quiet (e.g. on Act3X), people who are currently bored will leave. A big potion of them will never come back because they will have lost interest.
Keeping players means that you need to keep up their entertainment. Unfortunately in the current state, the game becomes a little repetitive. Mapping was cool in the beginning, but after some time even that is not so special anymore. Always the same content which doesn't give enough exp. Not enough randomization and especially not enough rewards. You are better of selling 77 maps to those who need it for exp than to farm yourself the items. That's kind of stupid.
Now a really good endgame is randomized to the highest degree and offers good pvp. I believe GGG has laid the foundation, but there is still a lot to improve here.

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Dan1986 wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Learn to savour the anticipation and the surprise, eh? Rattle the presents if you want, but don't expect Mom and Dad to outright tell you what's in the box.

Besides, as the date draws near, I've no doubt GGG will tease things to drum up interest.

Until then, you have 11.5 to look forward to in a few days, and 11.6 has already been slightly revealed.

I disagree on that point. I mean you need to know something before you can look forward to it.
If everything is too quiet (e.g. on Act3X)

Some info can be found about the new act while snooping around. Doesn't solve the 'communication' problem but it is fun :)

good post op! Although I think GGG accepts a decline in players for now and expect lots to come back for release, which I think they will!

With release will surely come lots of MTXs to get enough cash to release the next act, which will most certainly be released after a fading playerbase and bring people back again. Circle of gaming.

But hodari,

What about those who really do have a problem,
please tell me how can you make a flicker striker work in pvp as a main skill once this patch note are confirm. (praying that its not)

And also cold snap aswell even though ive never played one and not sure if it would affect it aswell.

But tell me how will you make a flicker striker in high lvl pvp please.


Though there are those who ride a legitimate reason to further their own cause to create a massive uproar. i do agree with you though. I just hope ur not dismissing my claims before really giving thought to my reasons. (read my thread of the reasons.)

long story short, u cant make a flicker anymore and theres no compensation, its gone.

Edit: i wish GGG would tell us the reasoning for these changes.

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Anthian wrote:

But hodari,

What about those who really do have a problem,
please tell me how can you make a flicker striker work in pvp as a main skill once this patch note are confirm. (praying that its not)

And also cold snap aswell even though ive never played one and not sure if it would affect it aswell.

But tell me how will you make a flicker striker in high lvl pvp please.


Though there are those who ride a legitimate reason to further their own cause to create a massive uproar. i do agree with you though. I just hope ur not dismissing my claims before really giving thought to my reasons. (read my thread of the reasons.)

long story short, u cant make a flicker anymore and theres no compensation, its gone.

Edit: i wish GGG would tell us the reasoning for these changes.

While the truly OP builds continue to dominate groups and forum topics with impunity.

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Hodari wrote:

utter shit

Perhaps another reason they've been talking less about what they have planned is that the community itself has gotten a lot worse lately. People used to be more willing to try things out FIRST and then have a somewhat rational discussion about it and provide meaningful feedback. Now it's starting to look more like the Diablo 3 forums(at least like they were back when I still played...) where people massively overreact to EVERYTHING, every unique item or build is either "op" or "shit" with little or no room in between, any gameplay changes(even minor ones or ones which adjust things both ways) are dismissed as "massive nerf to my favorite skill" even before people have tried it to see how it actually will affect things, and anyone who disagree with you at all is a "troll". Is it any wonder that they're a bit more reluctant to talk about things than they used to be?

Posts like the one below are the sort of thing I'm talking about(though this is nowhere near the worst of this kind I've seen, it does at least show the kind of massive hyperbole and extreme negative attitude that I think is part of the problem)

Spoiler

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Fluttershypony wrote:

>trap nerfs
>still no fixes to maps, exp loss, 3-build only gameplay, shav/soultaker/kaom
>lol drop system
>every new skill for the past 4 months have been garbage
>only post to ask us for money or to ask us to pay for sponsors


What's funny is, diablo 3 is starting to shape up to be amazing in it's expansion, copying the good concepts of this game and improving them instead of making 1000$ cosmetics.

No fixes for maps or xp loss? Funny, I seem to remember them greatly reducing the xp penalty not long ago and making a few changes to the map drops as well. Maybe it didn't completely solve the issue, but it was certainly a step in that direction.

3 build gameplay? If that's not blatant exaggeration, I don't know what is. There are plenty of other builds which don't use any of those items that are perfectly viable. Not to mention that even if you do still believe those items are "necessary" to be competitive or whatever, one item doesn't make an entire build. Even just limiting yourself to using those items, there are several different builds you could make.

lol drop system? I'd say the drop system is fine for the most part. Some of the very best items will be extremely rare. Get used to it. A large part of this genre of game is hunting for better gear and sometimes that means it will take months or even years to find the best(or close to it) possible items.

Every skill for the last 4 months garbage? I've seen quite a few people using reave while leveling and doing so quite effectively. I've been working on the "level all classes to 60" challenge lately, so I haven't seen how good it is at endgame yet, but for leveling alone, I'd hardly call this "garbage".

Maybe if people dropped this constant hypernegative attitude, things would be a little better.

Spoiler

Of course, a lot of people will probably just take one look at my post and respond with tl:dr.

LOL, TLDR

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

You do know something. It's going to complete the current story arc, you'll be facing Dominus and it's set in his giant tower.

If that's not enough for now, tough titty said the kitty.

As for people leaving -- pfffffttt. Beta. And I don't say that in the usual sense of 'game isn't finished, stop complaining about problems'. I'm saying it because Act 3X is as much about attracting new people as it is retaining old. It is the finished product. The version of PoE that GGG will submit to reviewers, to the public at large. Too many people are treating it like a last ditch effort to 'retain' those people thinking about leaving.

And most of those would go anyway. Whether it's to RoS, Hearthstone, Sacred 3, an MMO...whatever it is. GGG aren't making a game designed to retain the maximum number of players. If they were, they'd have gone pay to win from the start and seriously rake it in.

I believe that Act 3x/release is aimed at two distinct demographics: new players who won't touch betas (and they are many), and existing players who have weighed up the pros and cones and are still here regardless. Those who are invested to a point where they don't HAVE to be told what's coming in explicit detail, only that something is coming and GGG is making it.

I firmly believe that even if those inclined to criticise PoE unfairly and leave in a huff were to know everything in Act 3x, they'd still be unsatisfied. Because their expectations have been unrealistic from the start. They thought Open Beta would fix everything, would be the Promised Land. It wasn't; it isn't.

Act 3x won't be either.

Which is fine -- I bet PoE's full release will be less buggy than *plenty* of triple A releases have been.

I doubt there is a single fan of ARPGs that has not heard of PoE by now. This means that the core of PoE's target audience, the hardcore crowd, has already tried the game. I don't think the demographic of gamers hardcore enough to enjoy a game like PoE but not willing to try the beta is a significant one. Everyone else (ie. the public at large), will take one look at PoE's screenshots and quickly hit the back button before washing their mouse hand with rubbing alcohol. This is why it is extremely important to retain players.

Also, while I'm convinced GGG are a great bunch of guys, I seriously doubt their chosen business model is more about ethics than product differentiation (face it, gamers are sick of P2W).

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Anthian wrote:

But hodari,

What about those who really do have a problem,
please tell me how can you make a flicker striker work in pvp as a main skill once this patch note are confirm. (praying that its not)

If you really do have a problem, there's nothing wrong with saying so. But, actually think about what you are saying and make a reasonable argument for it. Don't just take one glance at the patch notes, see something is being changed, and instantly assume it's the end of the world. And certainly don't jump straight to saying it's "shit" especially without having even had a chance to try it yet. But even after that, if you can't make a rational argument for your position and have to resort to "It's shit," don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

Again, looking back in this thread, here's a good example:


I disagree with their conclusion in that this type of game is always going to involve repeating similar content over and over. This was the case in Diablo 2 and people are still playing it to this day.

But while I disagree with their opinion, I can still respect that it is a valid opinion and is presented in an intelligent way. If I was a developer or someone else from GGG reading these forums looking for feedback, I'm sure a post like this would be far more meaningful than 10 posts from people who just mindlessly dismiss something as "garbage".

As for how to make flicker strike work in PvP, I don't know. I've never been much of a PvP fan myself in the first place, so I'm probably not the best one to answer that. It may well be that it can't be used as a primary attack anymore though. My guess is it would still be useful as an initial attack to close the distance on a ranged/caster opponent quickly and get within melee range or as a finishing blow, but you will still need a second attack to use with it. Then again, I'd think in PvP, you'd always want to have more than one type of attack anyway. Flicker Strike is also still good in PvE as a quick way to clear out large numbers of trash mobs so long as you use it with frenzy charges the way it was probably intended to be used all along. I'm not sure that every skill necessarily should HAVE to be good for both PvP and PvE(though it would certainly be nice if that was possible). Also, we don't know if they have other changes in mind for this as part of their upcoming PvP balancing for 1.0.

So again, I think it's perfectly fine to say you have a problem with something or think things could be improved(I certainly have done so myself on more than one occasion with this game). But do try to respect that other people might have a different opinion and that doesn't mean that they are necessarily wrong. If you want to convince anyone, especially the developers, of your side of things, at least think it through first and give good reasons for why you think something needs to be changed.

And keep in mind that the developers probably have FAR more information available to them than you do. They have all kinds of statistics regarding things like how many players there are, what skills are being used, what level players are and how many people are dying with particular builds etc. In some cases, they may have had to adjust skills based on a build that isn't even publicly known yet but that they ran across in their own testing. They know what other changes they may have coming up in the future as well. Not to mention that they have probably invested countless hours(and in many cases a good deal of their own money) into this game. So don't be TOO quick to just dismiss their ideas as shit.