GGG: You guys used to be good at communicating. Things seem to have taken a dip as of late

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Qarak wrote:

I don't understand why Reave is considered a stupid skill
It did good on a melee ranger until level 51 or 52, then I hit the famous wall
Didn't seem that bad for me

agreed! i'm actually using reave on my 51 shadow in merciless with no issues (albeit, with some thankfully decent gear). swapped around with double strike + melee splash for a bit too and found the DPS similar (i've not invested in AOE damage nodes yet). i found reave more strategic and worked well off good positioning (desyncing monsters sucked though). DS+MS was just easier, run up and press hit.

but anyway, that's beside the point, i think the built up for the reave was far too high which they could have managed better :)

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tobes111 wrote:

"The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG"

Look at that quote

At least HINT what they are planning

see, this highlights one of the ops points so well. Thats the first time I've seen that comment on endgame, and Ive been in a million endgame topics debating with people who obviously havent seen that comment either. I had to go search Michaels posts to find the thread and read it.

With so much heated debate on the forums, a slightly more specific version of the above post put in a place where people who care about these issues can find it would end all this nonsense, and its not there, it's hidden in some random topic and its vague.

The post has a lot of truth.

But I also disagree with a lot of things. As a developer you have to follow certain objectives. You need to make money. In this world you don't get ANYTHING for free so what did you expect? Also you cannot ask the community in every single regard because that would slow down things and sometimes create more of a shitstorm than necessary. Scenario 1: The razer ads are announced. Many people get upset and discuss this thing upside down. Scenario 2: You read the thing, maybe care for a second, but once you realize this has only visual impact you don't care at all. Moreover it does generate money which in the end supports development and produces a better game. All at the cost of nothing but optional visual effects? Sounds brilliant to me.

I agree with regard to the lacking degree of communication that GGG seems to follow. I mean you also have to see, there is only so much to say about certain things. You cannot expect a free to play to produce a load of content every week which would surely create more things to speak about.
But I would like to see more posts in the dev manifesto, as well as balance long term objectives and other points of major interest. Why don't we see any answer to the discussion on life vs energy shield? Etc. The strategy is most obviously to be very passive in communication. Because if you don't say anything, you cannot get offended or criticized. Correct? :)

Hey charan, agreed on the razer not being a big deal. per my OP, i just think it's ugly, but that has nothing to do with it being razer or not. Heh.

Just thought that through earlier communication, they could have potentially prevented some of this backlash that they're now facing.

Understand that they're completely swamped with release, but would have thought backlash prevention would take up less time than backlash cure.

Ah well. Fingers crossed for release!

edit: fixed a typo. "through" instead of "true". what was i thinking?!

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

snorkle_uk, tobes111: Michael_GGG is an awesome guy and the company wouldn't run the same without him but he's not a founding developer. It's not his place to elaborate, nor is it mine, even though we both could. What we can do is hint at how great we think it's all going to be.

You've seen what GGG has done so far. Look at how far they've come in a year regarding content, features. Do you honestly need more than 'it will be great, just wait and see'? Are you really THAT sceptical? If so, fair enough, but if I have any advice for GGG it's simply: stop spoiling everyone with so many spoilers. We are so spoilt when it comes to future content.

Learn to savour the anticipation and the surprise, eh? Rattle the presents if you want, but don't expect Mom and Dad to outright tell you what's in the box.

Besides, as the date draws near, I've no doubt GGG will tease things to drum up interest.

Until then, you have 11.5 to look forward to in a few days, and 11.6 has already been slightly revealed.

I understand your point but when people are quitting the game because 'map drops are bullshit' and other points that they feel are really wrong in the game and theres no official statement that they will be addressed maybe its time to say ok, surprises are fun but when our game is fundamentally broken in endgame and the lack of communication is making people so angry that they quit the game in large numbers maybe the childhood Christmas sparkle we were aiming for here is not resulting in a happy, excited community.

Theres 100s of threads on this forum full of often hostile heated debating on the issue of late game play that dont need to exist if we had some proper communication on serious issues, not presents, serious flaws in the game. Why do you think I didnt quit this game 3 months ago? Because I believe in them to sort this out, and Ive been waiting, pissed off, completely frustrated with this game waiting for some word that something is being done based on the fact I believe in them while almost everyone I know has quit playing instead. You will not get most of them back, theyre gone, playing new games, it doesnt feel like Christmas.


In your analogy the parents refused to confirm Christmas even existed and half the kids committed suicide in despair mid November.

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Qarak wrote:

I don't understand why Reave is considered a stupid skill
It did good on a melee ranger until level 51 or 52, then I hit the famous wall
Didn't seem that bad for me

Its not a bad skill
its just that were really stupid when setting the mech and req for it
they clearly went off the track. If you know arpg you could recognize their fail.

how it should have been:

1)Dagger/staff/claw
2)Not a fucking ''increase physical damage''... lets make it ''Increase overall damage''... its a dex/int skill for gods sake, lets consider the damage to be so too!

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Sexcalibure wrote:

Its not a bad skill
its just that were really stupid when setting the mech and req for it
they clearly went off the track. If you know arpg you could recognize their fail.

how it should have been:

1)Dagger/staff/claw
2)Not a fucking ''increase physical damage''... lets make it ''Increase overall damage''... its a dex/int skill for gods sake, lets consider the damage to be so too!

i've always had an issue with all melee skills only buffing physical damage (cleave / double strike / dual strike / reave / etc). it almost forces ele melee uses to do dual wield cleave, which i find very boring. (ele hit doesn't count... it's not even a percentage gain on the weapon's damage)

ah well. again, i digressed from my main point of the thread :S oops...

Perhaps another reason they've been talking less about what they have planned is that the community itself has gotten a lot worse lately. People used to be more willing to try things out FIRST and then have a somewhat rational discussion about it and provide meaningful feedback. Now it's starting to look more like the Diablo 3 forums(at least like they were back when I still played...) where people massively overreact to EVERYTHING, every unique item or build is either "op" or "shit" with little or no room in between, any gameplay changes(even minor ones or ones which adjust things both ways) are dismissed as "massive nerf to my favorite skill" even before people have tried it to see how it actually will affect things, and anyone who disagree with you at all is a "troll". Is it any wonder that they're a bit more reluctant to talk about things than they used to be?

Posts like the one below are the sort of thing I'm talking about(though this is nowhere near the worst of this kind I've seen, it does at least show the kind of massive hyperbole and extreme negative attitude that I think is part of the problem)



No fixes for maps or xp loss? Funny, I seem to remember them greatly reducing the xp penalty not long ago and making a few changes to the map drops as well. Maybe it didn't completely solve the issue, but it was certainly a step in that direction.

3 build gameplay? If that's not blatant exaggeration, I don't know what is. There are plenty of other builds which don't use any of those items that are perfectly viable. Not to mention that even if you do still believe those items are "necessary" to be competitive or whatever, one item doesn't make an entire build. Even just limiting yourself to using those items, there are several different builds you could make.

lol drop system? I'd say the drop system is fine for the most part. Some of the very best items will be extremely rare. Get used to it. A large part of this genre of game is hunting for better gear and sometimes that means it will take months or even years to find the best(or close to it) possible items.

Every skill for the last 4 months garbage? I've seen quite a few people using reave while leveling and doing so quite effectively. I've been working on the "level all classes to 60" challenge lately, so I haven't seen how good it is at endgame yet, but for leveling alone, I'd hardly call this "garbage".

Maybe if people dropped this constant hypernegative attitude, things would be a little better.

char you dnt half talk some crap, do you even play the game?, you seem to post on every single post ever made, i mean srsrly do you even play the game or just sit ont he forums 24/7?

hodari, i do agree that there are an increasing amount of super negative people in the forums (i wouldn't specifically point out the specific issue or person)

i'm hoping they'll be drowned out over time with more reasonable voices (or a streamer who suddenly says Reave is OP. kinda like how burning damage suddenly became OP overnight)

feeling a little short changed if the changing demography in the forums has resulted in a different response from the devs. can't blame them i guess.