If life was back to CB levels...

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Players dont run auras "by default", discipline for CI builds aside. Plenty of builds have no room or no use for evasion/armor auras.

Youre doing something wrong if youre not running Grace and Determination by default as a life based character, no one ever assumed that its default for ES based characters.

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The fireball characters were midrange- gmp fireball fans too much to be useful at long range- and point blanked rares and bosses.

Something I would definitely not do in the current state of the game. Then again, is that really comparable to the problem a melee character would face against reflect? I am honestly calling bullshit on that story, especially the part where you claim to have ran endgame maps with that amount of armor in point blank range.

Shrine, extra damage, elemental damage and a blue pack of whippers would just destroy you UNLESS you have someone who keeps controlling the pack for you in which case you wouldnt even need any armor.

Defenses are a thousand times more valuable than offenses because you usually kill shit fast anyway and thats why in my mind you will die at some point with a playstyle like that unless someone spams Freeze Mines or uses Ice Spear Prolif totems. In the end you could just run FP and do both comparable damage while freezing everything, automatically being way more efficient.

You dont stack them to take as little damage as possible against weak mobs, you stack them to be safe in crazy rolled maps. Not doing so to get more damage (which is what I assumed you did) is questionable.

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I ran a CI pulse shadow to a demi finish in the first 2-week HC event. Teammate ran a similar CI pulse witch. This is from scratch, mostly poor gear (nothing above 4-link, barely breaking 8k es at the end), direct casting, and we duo'd the entire event (as in, didnt party with anyone else, though we did some soloing when one of us wasnt on) with around 10 days of it spent running rare maps.

Scroll about halfway down for the results (teammate is #3)- and check the finish date:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/39572/page/32

And heres the patch that introduced ghost reaver- dont forget to check that date again!:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/49469

So thats that. People claiming it cant be done are ultimately only referring to themselves and their own lack of building/execution skills; the proof that it can be done and has been done is right there in the games history.

Once again claiming MoC was like maps while I am sure you know that thats complete bullshit.

Rares had a mod pool, they didnt get bonus mods on top of that from the map itself. Minus max as an area modifier didnt exist, neither did PERMA CURSES you cant get rid of with flasks or elemental damage applied to the attacks with every single mob in the map while your resistances are being lowered. Reflect? Sure, one pack in a hundred. In maps you may have to face double reflect with lowered resistances, chilled ground that makes you cast and move slower, turbo mods that are stacked 3 times in Onslaught and so much other stuff.

It doesnt matter if the spike damage was comparable, the fact that way more annoying mods are stacked up right now makes the game 10 times harder (if it could be considered hard). Youre temp chained, enfeebled or cursed with elemental weakness? Who cares, just purge it off. A reflect pack? Who care I just take it slow, its just a handful of mobs right? Killing a pack like this without leech sure is possible but if your damage is high and the pack big also take quite a while. Playing a whole map with reflect and maybe even something like packsize? See you tomorrow. Now imagine you face a regen pack, probably cant even kill it.

The genre is about efficiency. If you cant play half the mods properly because you refuse to use a simple mechanic your build isnt viable, its trash. After all you have a character on 88 HC so you should be aware of the fact rolling maps is an expensive thing to do. You wont be able to find anyone to play with if you have to chicked out in halt the maps because you cant play the rolled mods, especially those that actually give you a lot of quantity.

You keep refering to a state of the game that is in the past, that got changed by a lot and think that this means that there still is a point in running those builds. But as I said earlier: You can also run an EB CI character and hide behind totems, it is possible. Then again, whats the point? If its not efficient its not viable, simple as that.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

You really really shouldn't be throwing around opinions on how things used to be and making wildly inaccurate assumptions based on that when you have no clue.

Maps were introduced roughly a year ago (shockingly, with mods!).

Even worse, you never got to experience literally THE HARDEST content the game offered. Actual turbo 60%, end game, WITH bugged undead that were so goddamn fast they made the client view WARP.

And what exactly does that have to do with what I said? You bring up a single mechanic that simply is a turbo to counter the others that didnt exist? The others that are the main reason maps are rolled and people die in them?

It doesnt matter if a mob is fast as long as you can control it, let alone that a 60% turbo mod is nothing compared to a Frenzy Charge + Turbo map in Onslaught that has another Turbo on top of that by default.

Turbo mods never killed anyone, its them grouped up with additional elemental damage on every single hit, annoying perma curses or minus max that get you. Hell maybe the game really was harder because of the limitations that made it harder to deal with specific mods, but that has nothing to do with it being pointless to run a self caster without life leech in the current state of the game and him bringing up races from A YEAR ago doesn say anything about the recent history of a game that gets major balance patches every 2 months.

And thats what the whole argument was about because no one gives a shit about what was possible in the past because its not comparable with the present. This whole thing started when some guy said that having to use leech is doing it wrong. And that simply is a retarded statement that doesnt apply to the current state of the game anymore because you simply need leech if you want to play efficiently. If you dont care about efficiency your build isnt viable by default.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

Okay do you understand what a 1 week race is?

Do you understand what 60% turbo is, add that to the race, also make sure undead are bugged for extra kicks (skeletal rhoas and necros ftw).

Now, take maps, with enfeeble, -max res, vulnerability, elemental weakness, fleet, fucking name it, virtually all the mods you have for maps now EXISTED. ON TOP OF 60% turbo.

Unpurgable permacurses existed, interesting. Not even necessary to point out the other flaws of that comment but I would like to know what you are even on about.

The conversation is about leech being a necessity for casters. And whats all that argument about turbo supposed to be? Its a 60% speed upgrade, its basically BLAMT. Something you can easily replicated with a turbo map mod in Onslaught (40-45%) and Frenzy Charges on mobs that pretty often get triggered because they got activated by Prolif or some Sporker (probably 25%-75%). That overall adds up to faster mobs BY DEFAULT (65%-120%), not even taking specific rare or magic mods into consideration. Congratulations, youre now running BLAMT Shrine.

So you can basically double the speed youre pointing out as difficult to handle with just 2 mods that are far from rare.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

You know how Onslaught is only 20% faster? Yeah, make that 60% and you should get an idea. Now throw fleet on it, or frenzy, like I said, fucking name it. Many of us were disappointed because of onslaught being such an underwhelming league, you know, only being 20% faster and all.

Shit really? I didnt notice. Maybe I just added up the default Turbo of 20% and the map modifier and ended up at 40-45%? Nahhh, why would I do that?

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Yes, they did, you also couldn't dispel any curses at all.

In what witchcraft race was that the case? Map wide curses that didnt run out didnt exist. Dispelling curses is just the cherry on top, purging them off can also just mean that you run around until its duration runs out, which happens rather quickly.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

Yes, they did, you also couldn't dispel any curses at all. You know how Onslaught is only 20% faster? Yeah, make that 60% and you should get an idea. Now throw fleet on it, or frenzy, like I said, fucking name it. Many of us were disappointed because of onslaught being such an underwhelming league, you know, only being 20% faster and all.

Shit really? I didnt notice. Maybe I just added up the default Turbo of 20% and the map modifier and ended up at 40-45%? Nahhh, why would I do that?

Okay, now take and replace that 20% with 60%, before you start adding shit on it. THE RACE ITSELF WAS TURBO.

Chris, literally laughed out loud at the idea of people soloing maps in that race. I guess I showed him.

So? With the mod I mentioned the MAP ITSELF can be 120% Turbo, it doesnt matter if the leagues turbo only is 20% if the overall speed upgrade adds up to twice the amount before mob mods.

Really shocked that you dont get that as a person who, as half the people in here, is clinging to the past. In your case you cant even make your own build work anymore and just gave up on the idea because you have have to drops damage and go full out survivability with every node. A person who has less than 1000 armor at level 70 and complains about survivability issues. In my book thats incompetence.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

And regarding the dispels, they simply didn't exist on flasks. You couldn't dispel at all.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55302

Hard to keep track when people jump from endgame in closed beta to "well back in april 2012" to "well in that one race in august 2012".