Malachai's Simula Blood Magic trick being removed. Why I'm disappointed.

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Flickerflare wrote:

Only Elemental Hit really gets it's bang for buck ratio really well out of it.

Unless Haste is a more modifier, but it says it's an increased.

Doesn't really matter what skill you use, it only matters how much IAS you got besides Haste. If you got absolutely no AS increases other than haste you would gain 13% more DPS with it and it would marginally be worth it, but who in the seven hells has a build like that? Maybe you could consider it if using marohi.

Haste for Frenzy doesn't improve your dps that much. Imagine you have Frenzy high level with quality. This is up to 18% attack speed PER frenzy charge. Now have 8 of those (18%x8=144%) + attack speed from nodes (~30-40%) + Faster Attacks (up to 54%). Then 14% attack speed from Haste is next to nothing. I'd rather get another aura that has some real impact like Hatred or Determination or Purity. Actually those 3 + Grace are the most important auras to have, everything else is a luxury imo.
Haste is only really good for it's movespeed.

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raics wrote:

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Flickerflare wrote:

Only Elemental Hit really gets it's bang for buck ratio really well out of it.

Unless Haste is a more modifier, but it says it's an increased.

Doesn't really matter what skill you use, it only matters how much IAS you got besides Haste. If you got absolutely no AS increases other than haste you would gain 13% more DPS with it and it would marginally be worth it, but who in the seven hells has a build like that? Maybe you could consider it if using marohi.

Oh, in a void, yes every build gets the same amount out of 13% more attack speed, but look at it this way.

Most builds spend 40% on haste and get maybe 2000 more DPS.

Elemental hit spends 40% on haste and gets 20000 more DPS.

Due to the way Elemental hit does it's damage it gets an extreme boost out of it no other skill can match.

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Flickerflare wrote:

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

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Flickerflare wrote:

Yes, haste is the most retarded Aura ever. The only build I'd ever use it on is an elemental hit build. (Because it's damage dramatically scales with attack speed).

(1) Read, I was in fact discussing the guy's elemental hit build

(2) Please explain to me what is so special about elemental hit that makes it scale 'dramatically' more than other attacks with attack speed? Or that makes haste's 13ias give it a huge boost? Its got a base damage, a multiplier / s, and it scales with attack speed and crit like every other single attack in the game.

Because Elemental Hit is practically a spell. It doesn't use your weapon's damage to calculate a large portion of it's damage, it simply does up to 630 more damage a hit, without supports. While a normal skill like glacial hammer, infernal blow, split arrow or lightning arrow requires you to get more damage on your weapon or gear to really excel, attack speed is the most valuable stat on EH. Which means that due to the way an Elemental Hit build is built, attack speed is far more important to it than to practically every other build type: which results in haste being a better investment for Elemental Hit than any other type of build out there.

And despite this, it's still the worst aura in the game outside of this one niche situation.

Only one of the 3 elements is chosen at random, and they have a range, its not the max damage on each hit. did you know this or not?

x-x dmg on rings jewelry and auras also behaves like elemental hit, its a base damage (average taken for tooltip dps) separate from your weapon, still subject to damage effectiveness, % increases (in this case WED / projectile increases instead of melee physical / weapon specific increases) etc

So no, EH doesnt scale 'specially' with ias than any other build

and no, its an attack, not practically a spell. its an elemental attack, instead of a physical one. and ranged instead of melee.

Please read what you wrote in bold carefully.
I said UP TO... which means the peak damage.
The peak damage of lightning is 630 on the skill.

So my statement was accurate, where are you going with this?
If you wanted the average damage, you get 286.5 more damage on average per hit.
All the jewlerly that effects your other skills effect elemental hit too, but only physical damage generally effects the scaling of other damage on the skill. Your physical damage is unlikely to boost the damage of any single hit by 286.5 on average at level 20.

This is without -any- elemental damage modifiers, which scale rather well with elemental hit. Since it's damage -per- hit is far higher than any other melee skill, it scales better with increased attack speed.

Because 286.5 is a bigger number than 200. if you multiply it by 1.14 it will be a larger denomination away, which means it scaled better.

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Flickerflare wrote:

Your physical damage is unlikely to boost the damage of any single hit by 286.5 on average at level 20.

cleave, dual strike, (swing both weapons in one attack when dual wielding for 140 / 200 % weapon damage effectiveness and a resultant higher average physical damage with more %increases than a WED build), heavy strike with a maul, etc ... these much?

point is they are all attacks and all scale with attack speed similarly, EH doesnt have such a drastic increase with ias as you wanted to make it seem.

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Flickerflare wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Flickerflare wrote:

Only Elemental Hit really gets it's bang for buck ratio really well out of it.

Unless Haste is a more modifier, but it says it's an increased.

Doesn't really matter what skill you use, it only matters how much IAS you got besides Haste. If you got absolutely no AS increases other than haste you would gain 13% more DPS with it and it would marginally be worth it, but who in the seven hells has a build like that? Maybe you could consider it if using marohi.

Oh, in a void, yes every build gets the same amount out of 13% more attack speed, but look at it this way.

Most builds spend 40% on haste and get maybe 2000 more DPS.

Elemental hit spends 40% on haste and gets 20000 more DPS.

Due to the way Elemental hit does it's damage it gets an extreme boost out of it no other skill can match.

Sorry, but the math just doesn't add up. Let's say you do 30k dps by doing 3 attacks per second, 10k each. Your weapon has base AS of 1.5 and you have 100% IAS total, without haste. Turning on Haste increases that to 113% bringing your attack speed to 3,2 attacks per second and your dps to 32k, that's an awfully nice 2k more DPS or 6,5% if you prefer it that way.

Not really worthy of 40% mana reserve.

Now, let's see the best set of circumstances to use haste.

You use a weapon with base attack speed of 1.0 attacks per second (irrelevant for this dps difference calculation as you do not swap your weapons), you use The Anvil with -10% AS and Deshret's with worst roll of -15%, also have no attack speed passives.

You do 1.0 base attacks per second for 10k damage, which amounts to 0,75 with 25% decrease on items, and do a stellar 7,5k DPS. You turn on haste reducing the decrease to 12%, bringing your attack speed to 0,88 per second and DPS to 8,8k bringing you the net increase of 1,3k, or in this case a whooping 17% more DPS. Nice.

I concede defeat. That point is valid.
There is particular scenario's under which Elemental Hit will still contribute vastly better damage, but you're right in that those two skills (cleave and dual strike) can easily match it under most circumstances.

Elemental hit really shines in it's ability to use elemental equilibrium at the same time I suppose, making second/third hits far stronger than anything other builds can put out, while still gaining the advantages of haste.

I think a while ago we all agree'd that Haste is a crappy aura btw. We're now just arguing about if it helps certain skills more than others XD.

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raics wrote:

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So yes, it IS almost 50% of my dps, sir.

You do know Elemental Hit doesn't show dps right?

Show us all the numbers on the tooltip and we we'll tell you how much they really add.

has to be this, because logically it doesnt make sense for those 2 auras to give 50% of the dps when ele hit, and x-x mods on weapon,quiver, rings, amu are like 80%+ of the base dmg, and everything is EQUALLY scaled with ias / crit / wed + whatever other increases + more multipliers.