25 orbs of fusing and still no 4L

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Estoroth wrote:

I'm not sure a fully unpredictable crafting system - where hours of grinding and resource gathering may end up in a negative result - is the best way to go.

Something that pretty much everyone here has missed: the system is only fully random if you have a single, solitary orb that you're using on an item. However, the more you have, the greater the chances are that you get the outcome you want. Think of it like the real-life lottery... the more tickets you buy, the more likely you'll win.

Honestly, as a hobbyist game designer and mid-level player, I do think the system should see a slight balance more toward improvements to your items over detraction, but only because it's possible for some people to be disenfranchised with the system as it is. From what I understand, it's much more difficult to roll a good item than it is to roll a bad item, and this seems to be the root of everyone's frustration.

Because of this, here's my Official Beta Feedback Suggestion: make the chances of getting a good item equal to the chances of getting a bad item. If it's already equal and I just misheard the mechanics as they are (hard to know factual info since there's no official manual or whatever), balance it slightly more toward improving items instead of devaluing them.

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Estoroth wrote:

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devmoon wrote:

This game is ALL about randomness, removing randomness and this game wont last long.

Isn't the game really about progressing and increasing the power of your character(s)?

Action RPGs tend to have very simplistic game play, which means they are dependent on the character progression element to keep the game interesting.

I'm not sure a fully unpredictable crafting system - where hours of grinding and resource gathering may end up in a negative result - is the best way to go.

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simnel wrote:

NOBODY is stupid enough to think that a Chaos orb is going lead to item progress, except perhaps someone so new that they've only seen a small number of rare items. That is different than fusings/chromatics/jewellers', which people ARE stupid enough to think will improve their item, because it LOOKS LIKE THEY WILL.

Don't see it, and it doesn't take more than 1-2 fuse/chrom/jewelers to figure out really quickly that it doesn't.

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VVander wrote:

make the chances of getting a good item equal to the chances of getting a bad item. If it's already equal and I just misheard the mechanics as they are (hard to know factual info since there's no official manual or whatever), balance it slightly more toward improving items instead of devaluing them.

It's biased toward 2/3/4L and away from 5/6L. If this change was made it would be even harder to get 4Ls with fusings than it already is.

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Estoroth wrote:

I'm not sure a fully unpredictable crafting system - where hours of grinding and resource gathering may end up in a negative result - is the best way to go.

When the alternative is linearly increasing player power, the end-game simply evaporates. I'd prefer a game that lasts more than a month to one that makes sure people can't make mistakes.

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VVander wrote:

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Estoroth wrote:

I'm not sure a fully unpredictable crafting system - where hours of grinding and resource gathering may end up in a negative result - is the best way to go.

Something that pretty much everyone here has missed: the system is only fully random if you have a single, solitary orb that you're using on an item. However, the more you have, the greater the chances are that you get the outcome you want. Think of it like the real-life lottery... the more tickets you buy, the more likely you'll win.

Honestly, as a hobbyist game designer and mid-level player, I do think the system should see a slight balance more toward improvements to your items over detraction, but only because it's possible for some people to be disenfranchised with the system as it is. From what I understand, it's much more difficult to roll a good item than it is to roll a bad item, and this seems to be the root of everyone's frustration.

Because of this, here's my Official Beta Feedback Suggestion: make the chances of getting a good item equal to the chances of getting a bad item. If it's already equal and I just misheard the mechanics as they are (hard to know factual info since there's no official manual or whatever), balance it slightly more toward improving items instead of devaluing them.

The lottery anology is not really the best thing to use. If for example the odds of you winning with a single ticket are 1 in 14,000,000 then 2 tickets change your odds to 1 in 13,999,999. This is easy to calculate as i used a local lottery with 6/49 (when you factor it-non replaceable-odds are approx 1 in 14,000,000).

Now, I would imagine as bad as the lottery is...the orb RNG is worse! Unless of course the devs have a system where your odds slightly increase based on item or number of tries.

It would be worse because you are starting fresh each attempt...unlike the lottery where the same ball cant be pulled out of the drum twice.

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retsnimle wrote:

The lottery anology is not really the best thing to use. If for example the odds of you winning with a single ticket are 1 in 14,000,000 then 2 tickets change your odds to 1 in 13,999,999. This is easy to calculate as i used a local lottery with 6/49 (when you factor it-non replaceable-odds are approx 1 in 14,000,000).

What? If you buy two tickets, your odds double to 1 in 7,000,000.

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pneuma wrote:

Why are these complaint threads always about chromatics or fusings?

The complaints are always about chromatics and fusings, because those are the orbs you need to change the sockets, which you need to be able to use gems in certain combinations, which gives you certain skills.
I think those skill-related orbs should be less random, because you build your character. Building your character shouldn’t be random. It should be something players can influence.

For those who think that I want to make the game easier. No, I do not want to make the game easier. I want it to be more predictable. I am not going to farm a year for 1000 orbs of fusing, knowing that there is a chance that I will not get a result.

As the system works now, every extra link you want on an item decreases the chance getting that link. GGG tweaked the chances, because otherwise it would be to easy to get a 5L/6L orb.

Let’s look at the normal stats.
Links are always made in a reverted S:

O – O
......|
O – O
|
O – O

An item with 4 sockets will have (2*2*2)-1 = 7 different link options.
An item with 5 sockets will have (2*2*2*2)-1 = 15 different link options.
An item with 6 sockets will have (2*2*2*2*2)-1 = 31 different link options.

I just read the "Math of fusings" thread, which explains how links between sockets are rolled. It doesn't make a difference for the point I want to make.

If GGG would use a pure random process based on the options, it would take an average of 31 fusing orbs to get the 6L. That is too common, so they probably changed the odds for higher number of links.

I used 25 orbs to get a 4L, which I should have gotten after 7 orbs on average when a normal random process was used. I should have counted the links I got during that process. Probably I got a lot of 2 links and a few 3 links.
With every additional link the odds of getting it decreases. That is not a bad system. 5L/6L items should be very rare. Someone already mentioned the economy.
On the other hand, players should have the feeling that the item is within reach, that they can work towards it, that they can build their character. It would be nice to know what you need to get that 5L or 6L. That could also boost the economy. If you know what you need to make something, you go after it even if that takes a year. You know that after those twelve months, you have a 5L/6L. You have a goal and that is all that counts to keep people busy.

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pneuma wrote:

I don't understand why anyone thinks a 5/6L is even required for any build.

Cause there's only one option for an item with >4 links if you go with a one-handed (+shield or dual) setup; and for that its the only viable option to bind more then one active skill to the support(s) you need. Spread this over more gear parts will demand: -more/multiple (of maybe very rare) support gems, -even more high linked items (with the right sockets too); and by the limitations on useful items to do this, it also limits your possibilities to switch gear for better stats or general upgrades. (means: if you can cover all your main skills with the chest and maybe one other gear, say the head; you're much more free to adapt the rest of the equipment to your progress through different situations)

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pneuma wrote:

Why are these complaint threads always about chromatics or fusings?

There are almost never complaint threads about how chaos orbs cause negative progress (which they often do) or how divines caused negative progress (which they can) or even how exalts add a shitty mod (which happens a lot).

Why are sockets such a hot button issue? A magical item with the right sockets is way better than a rare item without.

As others said, sockets are needed to use your skills - without them you're nothing, without some of the (good) stats you're just slightly less good. (But, as explained below, this may matter a lot in late/endgame)

Chaos Orbs: there are a lot more crappy rares to reroll, than good stuff to socket up.

Divines and Exalts are too less common to have that much feedback on them - I'd expect it would be the same otherwise.

A magic item with the right sockets can 'cost' you up to 4 stats for each item you dont be able to replace with a rare one - a big potential loss, even if we expect that not every stat is really useful/needed by your char...

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vvvolte wrote:

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retsnimle wrote:

The lottery anology is not really the best thing to use. If for example the odds of you winning with a single ticket are 1 in 14,000,000 then 2 tickets change your odds to 1 in 13,999,999. This is easy to calculate as i used a local lottery with 6/49 (when you factor it-non replaceable-odds are approx 1 in 14,000,000).

What? If you buy two tickets, your odds double to 1 in 7,000,000.

You ARE joking....right?

for this, I found it with out link... use the only orb to link sockets and give me this... 4 * 2 ... so it´s about lucky, if you want a system how save your previous link and upgrade it.... it´s a rich mode.. like the other user say, because you don´t need lucky.. just a big amount of orb...

for me it´s fine and I´m a casual player.. 10 hours a week..

If you want security in the gear you get, get them through trade. It's more expensive but far less frustrating. Leave it to the super hardcore guys out there burning hundreds of Chromatics just to get that perfect combo.