25 orbs of fusing and still no 4L

Globbi-

You are advocating farmville plain and simple.

You really should look up the definitions of choice vs limitation.

Level 100 is a limitation.

Farming countless orbs and hoarding them is a choice.

Look, I have no problem letting the player base dictate that PoE become Farmville II. Myself and many others will continue on down the road and find a game where time is rewarded and not limited to rng.

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globbi wrote:

With randomness 1 player is limited to use 6L armor with sucky stats when other found an awesome rare chest and will eventually upgrade it to 5L. This is the reason why you will be incredibly happy when you manage to get good 6L.

It's also the reason that you will be incredibly unhappy when that 6L is a level 30 item and when you're level 65 you have no choice but to give up a skill or support gem in order to upgrade. That's not really the type of sacrifice that is fun in games, because it's only bad luck and not a trade off that is built into the game.

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You really should look up the definitions of choice vs limitation.

I said limitations are reason for choices. It doesn't mix any definitions.

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Farming countless orbs and hoarding them is a choice.

That may be a choice, if that's your case it's pretty sad. I enjoyed using my currency, trading for more when I find something of value and then using more. I accumulated most of it as I progressed and with smart use I had all I needed.

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You are advocating farmville plain and simple.

No, advocating farmville was when someone suggested progress bar on orbs. I advocate making choices which I explained earlier - use something with better stats or with better sockets. Orbs and amazing drops only add a possibility that you can have both somewhere in future and it's not essential to beating any content right now.

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t's also the reason that you will be incredibly unhappy when that 6L is a level 30 item

Finding a 6L lvl 30 chest is worse than tons of white junk, except it's actually worth something and can be used well in some cases. If you are incredibly unhappy because of it, it's only because of your unrealistic expectations.

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and when you're level 65 you have no choice but to give up a skill or support gem in order to upgrade.

That is an actual choice - better stats on item or better support for skill. How can you have no choice? You may need the upgrade to be better later but so you do need defensive or main stats nodes from passive tree. I bet a lot of players think it's more fun to get cool big damage nodes or fun keystones, should we only have cool keystones in passive tree?

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That's not really the type of sacrifice that is fun in games, because it's only bad luck and not a trade off that is built into the game.

I don't understand how finding an upgrade is bad luck. It is, again, your unrealistic expectations.

What exactly do you guys want? All items to have maximum number of white sockets? Or maybe no loot at all and just having an item maker?

This is an actual choice:



Know what isn't an actual choice? Being screwed vs being screwed. Not being able to maintain core functionality of your character, or not being able to use upgrades as such (which is functionally the same as not finding them).

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globbi wrote:

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and when you're level 65 you have no choice but to give up a skill or support gem in order to upgrade.

That is an actual choice - better stats on item or better support for skill. How can you have no choice? You may need the upgrade to be better later but so you do need defensive or main stats nodes from passive tree. I bet a lot of players think it's more fun to get cool big damage nodes or fun keystones, should we only have cool keystones in passive tree?

It's not about choosing which thing to make better, it's about choosing which thing to make worse (or at the very least, not making any changes whatsoever so your gear just stagnates completely). I don't ever want my character to get worse in any major respect, unless I'm making a conscious build-changing choice, like deciding I want to cut my DPS in half in order to double my survivability. If it comes to having to cut my DPS by 25% just to continue along the same build I'm already making then I'll probably just get bored and move on because making negative progress in a game where increasing your stats is the only goal is completely nonsensical.

As for the comment about the cool keystones, no, I think the passive tree is fine, because all the nodes do positive things. If there were nodes in the tree that had descriptions like "-5% Life" and "-0.5% Life Regeneration" then I would be complaining bitterly. The passive tree is a great example of making choices in games, and the complete lack of choices is the reason I'm so bored of Diablo 3. Choosing whether to keep the same crappy gear forever or make your character significantly less powerful is much worse than lack of choice.

edit: On second thought, I actually think that having shortcuts through the passive tree that have negative nodes on them would be an interesting idea, but regardless, it would still be an interesting choice in that case, not choosing the least boring of two evils.

Globbi --

It really is simple. You either like it or you don't. Me I like to be able to change my abilities and items around. I don't want to be chained to an illusion of uniqueness because rng so dictates.

I want to be able to swap out an ENTIRE item set with my abilities if I so choose. This has nothing to do with god mode attributes on items. Unless you think armor or evasion or energy shield is god mode.


You want to stick to one item set with half-fast ability layout, more power to you. I would rather have the freedom of choice on how to burn my orbs in order come up with an ability/item set that will allow me to crush my enemies.

I need to compare to D2 as it is the only game I really played similar to PoE:

Why was/is D2 so popular and LONG TIME engaging?

Because you were not handed all perfect possibilities on a golden plate, but had to work for being perfect, while you were able to play with mediocre gear as well and still had hundreds of possible ways to feel achieving something.
This is what is the difference of Casuals and Pros. Fun or Perfection.

I feel PoE has the same potential as it is now.


Additionally I'd like to compare "orbing" to crafting in D2.
Everybody was able to do it, but only the ones blowing unproportionate resources had enough chance to get what they wanted.

Additionally it is removing currency from the cycle, stabilizing the market - I like the idea and wouldn't want to see changes.


PS: 25 orbs for one item is not a huge amount imo

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Fhedaykin wrote:

PS: 25 orbs for one item is not a huge amount imo

25 of one type.

You have 3 levels (orbs) of rng to conquer when it comes to laying out your abilities.

D2 you could use your skills naked if you wanted. You don't get that option in this game. Huge difference.

D2 you could gamble for items. Here you gamble for ability layout. Huge difference.

I am not asking for anything to be handed to me. I am asking that the rng that is associated with ABILITY layout be removed.

No currency is being removed from the market when people hoard 60+ of chromatics, jewelers, fusings.

People trading huge sums of the orbs for items does not remove them from the market.

How are items that enable abilites not dropping or not dropping at the whim of the RNG? Say, like a 6L that drops or doesn't drop?

Having the added option of upgrading gear of your choice to have more sockets, more links or differently colored links to me is an improvement on just relying on item drops.

I don't mind the randomness when it comes to abilities, but it should not be mandatory. There should always be a way that you can guarantee socket layouts given enough materials. It should be enough materials that converting something to a 4 linked socket layout (let alone 5 or 6) is not something that you do on a whim--it's a major choice that involves spending a huge amount of currency. But there should never be a chance that you spend all that currency and still don't get what you want like there is now.

I also think that there should be some way to transfer a socket layout from one piece of gear to another, possibly via another orb. Hypothetically, it could work like this: Apply your Orb of Transference to the gear with the socket layout you want, which destroys the item and gives you a new token representing a socket layout. Apply that token to the destination item, and have the layout applied to it. I suggested before that it might also require the destination item to have 20% quality (with decreasing values for lower levels), which would then be consumed by the transfer. That way, once you find one item with the layout you want, you can continue to use it for a price. This does not hand you anything on a platter. You still need to a) find, or have enough currency to craft, the desired socket layout in the first place (already a rare occurrence), b) have the item required to do the transfer, c) potentially spend up to 40 whetstones/scraps to get the gear up to 20% quality in the end.