25 orbs of fusing and still no 4L

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boboglum wrote:

why should someone who plays a game 5 hours a week get the same rewards as one who plays 15+ hours a week?

Problem with casual players is your logic is totally flawed.

Have you read the posts mr. boboglum?

Problem with most posters is they do not read the previous posts.

I am not saying that I want the same reward as players playing around the clock. I am only saying that I would like to see some reward for the time I play. That doesn't mean it is the same reward! I want to see some progress and that doesn't have to be the same progress that hardcore players make. I do not, and I want to stress that, I do not compete with hardcore players. That is why I do not play PvP. I do not stand a chance.

But that doesn't mean that a game cannot be worthwhile for the casual gamer, cannot be rewarding.

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boboglum wrote:

For the record, I'm an adult with a full time occupation. I probably don't play games more than 6 or so hours a week.

Have you reached the endgame yet?

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boboglum wrote:

I understand I won't achieve as much in-game as those who play PoE 3..4..5x as much as I do.

Tell me then, what do you want to achieve?

This has absolutely nothing to do with casual vs hardcore. If it did, grinding the fuck out of a game and getting shit for it = hardcore means that Diablo 3 has the most hardcore playerbase imaginable. Obviously that is not true at all. Not even close.

It doesn't matter if using a bunch of orbs that took you hours to get and ending up worse than you started wastes one day, one week, or one month of your time. It matters that you are making negative progress in your time played which is a severe demotivator to keep on playing.

Most of the orbs are fine, it's just the ones that interact with sockets that can really screw you over.

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McHuberts wrote:

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MrSpaviel wrote:

No problem. Grind in the short amount of time you play and you will get the drops. That's fun, right? Making the game for casuals is what ruined big names already.

Even if i don't play many hours, the game should still be hard, in every aspect. If you can or cannot do it, it's up to you.

So, for you a hard game is not about skills, but about impossible odds and spending a great deal of time beating those odds.
In my opinion a good game should be able to please the casual and the hardcore gamer.

All I am saying is that I do not feel a reward for playing PoE anymore. I do not need ubergear after 1 month of play, but I want to feel I am progressing and get rewarded for the time spend in the game. This morning I threw away about 10 hours of gameplay trying to improve a single item in order to make better use of my gems. For me that is a weeks play.

Think about what kind of game you're playing. "Skill" or "knowing how to play the game well" in a game like PoE does not become a big factor in your success. So, yes, it is about beating the odds, in a sense, and there's a dash of luck involved, as well. People spend many many more hours and ten times more currency than you on single items trying to get 6L or 5L.

That being said, I'm fairly certain GGG is going to remove the negative side-effects of using orbs altogether, or make it so much more likely that you receive the item you want that it won't matter because this is a very common complaint with this game, which, in my opinion, takes away from the longevity of this game.

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McHuberts wrote:

In my opinion a good game should be able to please the casual and the hardcore gamer.

A game that dont "reward" you for invested playing time, would have to offer you all possible success very early - making >90% of the game un-challenging and boring.

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McHuberts wrote:

...so a game that is based on the more time you spend, the more you win is also pay-to-win.

Every game with a build-in progression (APRG: of chars) will offer you "more" the more you play, even if (high) amount of luck can lead to an opposite eaarly impression. There's simply no way to reach the same result of progress, as another player that can run 24h/day, if you cant. (just as extreme example from a ladder start like in D2)

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Mr_Cee wrote:

There's simply no way to reach the same result of progress, as another player that can run 24h/day, if you cant. (just as extreme example from a ladder start like in D2)

That is not what I ask for. I am not asking for the same progress in the same amount of time, I am just asking for progress or the feeling that progress is possible.

The problem here is that when the progress is 100 hours away, it is only 1 weeks play for the hardcore gamer and half a year for the casual gamer. If progress is that far away, you need to give the player some certainty that he will actually progress. If I collect orbs for six months to finally create my 6l chest with the right socket colours to support my character, I want to have some guarantee that I will succeed. If the chances are high that I will end up with a 1L chest, I won't bother playing the six months.

So, I agree with several posters that improvement of the orb-system, especially the orbs that are about improving sockets, colours and links, should be considered.

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McHuberts wrote:

"

boboglum wrote:

why should someone who plays a game 5 hours a week get the same rewards as one who plays 15+ hours a week?

Problem with casual players is your logic is totally flawed.

Have you read the posts mr. boboglum?

Problem with most posters is they do not read the previous posts.

I am not saying that I want the same reward as players playing around the clock. I am only saying that I would like to see some reward for the time I play. That doesn't mean it is the same reward! I want to see some progress and that doesn't have to be the same progress that hardcore players make. I do not, and I want to stress that, I do not compete with hardcore players. That is why I do not play PvP. I do not stand a chance.

But that doesn't mean that a game cannot be worthwhile for the casual gamer, cannot be rewarding.



Have you reached the endgame yet?




Tell me then, what do you want to achieve?

I want to be able to run everything over in the game with all 5 classes. It's going to take me a long time to get there considering I don't play this game many hours each week.

My whole purpose to responding to your thread was to let the game developers know there are some of us in this community who don't want PoE catered to casual gamers.

No point in getting into a back and forth with you. I'll just say we will agree to disagree.

To Chris Wilson: I stand by my previous post. DO NOT alter this game to cater to casual gamers.

Something to consider: it rarely matters what the item is with the links. So, in most cases, you don't have to find a 4-link weapon, just a 4-link something you can wear. It's not that difficult to find a 4-link (general) white item. I see one about every 20 minutes and usually just leave them on the ground.

I think much of the frustration comes from someone who is trying to make a perfect item; best item for their level, must be a weapon, must be all linked, must have all the right socket colors, etc.

An item like that should be very rare, imo. Work with what you find and make it better. If you have just reached a new level, say 50, and you find a white level 50 weapon, don't try to make that into your perfect item.

Keep looking for something that starts closer to what you ultimately want; it'll save you orbs and frustration.

One solution (sorry if already posted) could be to have a simple crafting interface where you as a player can specify various crafting tasks. One task could be "link all sockets".

You then get a simple progress bar for the current task, which is moved forward (in some random increments) by using orbs.

That way, you can still have an element of randomness how much progress each orb grants you, but you will never move back or end up with a crap item after stacks of orbs.

The item could even stay the same until the crafting was completed.

What the starter of this thread is suggesting is actually worse for casual players.

It basically means you can get one item and always improve and never risk anything, or even if the chance is increased a bit to improve it.

It would mean that say if you collect 500 fuse you will definetly get a 6 link, this would be eay for hardcore players but not for casual. Right now casual players have a smaller chance to get 6 links because of actual drop rates but changing it how he says would change all that and eveyrone would have 6 links.

Also it would upset the economy since instead of say not risking say a 5L to make a 6 link because you can sell the 5 L for a lot, you would just upgrade the 5L to 6L, basically what im saying is it would be worse for casual players and screw the economy.

It comes down to the flipping a coin if you flip it 2 times and it lands on heads, there still isnt more of a chance it will land on tails next time.

I suck at explaining myself anyway and no one will understand my post but i see how GGG did this and its perfected imo. Its sort of a paradox like the monty hall problem, if you take a whole bunch of different factors into account.

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SpectralSlice wrote:

This has absolutely nothing to do with casual vs hardcore. If it did, grinding the fuck out of a game and getting shit for it = hardcore means that Diablo 3 has the most hardcore playerbase imaginable. Obviously that is not true at all. Not even close.

It doesn't matter if using a bunch of orbs that took you hours to get and ending up worse than you started wastes one day, one week, or one month of your time. It matters that you are making negative progress in your time played which is a severe demotivator to keep on playing.

Most of the orbs are fine, it's just the ones that interact with sockets that can really screw you over.

This is how I see it tbh. The socket system needs to be reworked so that you're rewarded, not punished so severly. And grinding and grinding and grinding is not the only indicator of a person being hardcore.