This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

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miljan wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

You didn't answer my question. What do you lose if in d3 points were implemented?

D3 removed one of the fun parts for me, and important in any rpg game. Leveling your character. After you chose your 6 skills and runes, more than 40 lvl you do nothing. There is no joy in leveling. Even for attribute points, you will need to search for items.

They extended the number of skills, not customization per se. Customization doesn't come from skill only, but mechanic that you use for lvl you skill. Removing skill points removed customization and freedom for you to choose what you want. It is not, and never will be a improvement. I don't want max character, I want to make somthing different, and most important, I want full control of my character.

Every skill has six permutations, so for 40 levels you get to play around deciding on specifically what you want to use. Then at the end of the day you'll likely have a character unique to yourself based on what you chose for skills/runes/equipment to use.

Skill points do not ADD anything to the game. They create a bottleneck wherein either you did it right or you did it wrong and are stuck wit ha sub par character. What do you gain by adding skilpoints? A little feelinhg of satisfaction when you put a point into a contrived system that does little more than present a false sense of choice? YAh vrilliant system.

There's a reason Blizzard has been streamlining their systems in their games.

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Die_Scream wrote:

IMO:

PoE is an excellent game, ruined by the orbs and infuriating random (read: usually lose progress) crafting system. Destroys it for me personally.

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Avireyn wrote:

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RodHull wrote:

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Graphics- Clear winner Path of Exile, D3 graphics are embarassing.

Your other points are subjective, and to each his own, but this is ridiculous. D3s graphics are fantastic, they look almost hand drawn. POE looks really nice to, but the models are much more generic and characters are all rather ugly, not in a good way.

Everything else aside D3 looks graphically far superior to POE (as you'd expect)

I'd say that graphics and especially artstyle are a matter of opinion.

While I do find Diablo III's style to be very well done (strictly speaking of the crafting), I don't like it very much.

While from a "crafting" point of view, PoE should rank as lower, I actually like their graphics better. They're crisper, more mature and not as stylized.

This really hit home when I played a quick session of PoE yesterday after having spent many hours (around 10, all in all) on the Open Stress Test of Diablo III:

I really appreciated the crispness of it all. Somehow, to me, PoE's graphics feel more vibrant and fitting than Diablo III.


But that is, of course, a matter of perception and taste. I simply wanted to object to your general tone of "Diablo III's graphics are superior to PoE's in every single way".

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Avireyn wrote:

Maybe his point is that he likes the "building a character" mechanic in RPGs.

Diablo III doesn't have that any more. The character builds itself, and you can only choose on "skill loadouts", not unlike "weapon loadouts" in some FPS.

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Autocthon wrote:

Every skill has six permutations, so for 40 levels you get to play around deciding on specifically what you want to use. Then at the end of the day you'll likely have a character unique to yourself based on what you chose for skills/runes/equipment to use.

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Autocthon wrote:

Skill points do not ADD anything to the game. They create a bottleneck wherein either you did it right or you did it wrong and are stuck wit ha sub par character. What do you gain by adding skilpoints? A little feelinhg of satisfaction when you put a point into a contrived system that does little more than present a false sense of choice? YAh vrilliant system.

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Autocthon wrote:

There's a reason Blizzard has been streamlining their systems in their games.

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Avireyn wrote:

In any game, you will try all skill first time you play, but when you know all this skills, or know what skill you will use, you will get nothing from leveling for 40 levels. I want to create character, and exactly know what skills i will choose. For 40 lvl il do nothing. In other words, leveling is boring.

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This is where i disagree and think you are very wrong. The skills add:
-first a reword when you lvl
-ability to chose freely what you want, how strong skill is, how many skills you want to have.
-bigger possibility to make different builds because of freedom
-more unique builds than current system

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Your point that you can make a bad build, and its a good point, if there was no respect. So there are no bad points, only good ones.

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They made it so people don't make mistakes, but limited us others who like RPG elements and freedom.

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Ragura wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

The customizing options in D3 are also far deeper than D2 simply because you care more about gear.

This is untrue in my opinion and also one of the biggest turn offs of D3 for me.
In D2, PoE, Titan Quest, you name it, there are SO many more affixes that determine the sort of gear you'll get it's not even funny anymore. If you've played the D3 beta, you'll notice 75% of the items that drop have extra XP, gold, health globes on kill and the other 25% consists of extra damage (real build changer!) or thorns.

The problem for me is D3's customization looks as if it's catered to children or non-gamers. There's a reason the DPS and defense number on the item tooltips are huge: it's because this is the number that will matter most 95% of the time. All the rest on the item looks as if it will not be a build changer. In my ARPGs I like it when item choice is dictated by build choice, or in other words, they support each other to form a whole.

If I can pick any combination of 6 skills in D3 to create a somewhat viable build, I at LEAST want it to mean that you need at least 2-3 different item sets to support those builds. But that goes against Blizzard's new ideology where you're supposed to be able to click randomly on the UI and get a viable build and the items will support that no matter what.

Just my 2 cents, I'm not hating on D3, I do feel the game has a lot of polish and looks like it's achieved what it wanted to achieve. That goal is just not the one I personally wanted to see achieved.

So I'm sticking with PoE, at least until I get to try other ARPGs that have yet to come out :)

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Autocthon wrote:

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miljan wrote:

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Avireyn wrote:

In any game, you will try all skill first time you play, but when you know all this skills, or know what skill you will use, you will get nothing from leveling for 40 levels. I want to create character, and exactly know what skills i will choose. For 40 lvl il do nothing. In other words, leveling is boring.

You geta new skill/rune/skillslot nearly every level when you play D3. THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING TO TRY. Then once you ht 60 your goal becomes collecting awesome stuff. There is no point in which there isn't something to try out and play around with to decide if you like it. PErsonally I hated D2 after I'd played each class into lategame because having to wait a ridiculous ampount of time to try something new (then having no way to say wow I don;t like that) was a pain in the ass.

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This is where i disagree and think you are very wrong. The skills add:
-first a reword when you lvl
-ability to chose freely what you want, how strong skill is, how many skills you want to have.
-bigger possibility to make different builds because of freedom
-more unique builds than current system

1) You get a skill/rune/slot every level in D3. That's plenty reward for leveling up.

2) You can still choose freely what you want. The fact that you don't have to put point into a skill in order to keep it relevant was a mechanic that has sucked since its release. It constreicts creativity and the layout of skill trees TAXED you on your way to getting the skills you really wanted.

3) There are more choices in skills in D3 than there are in D3. You have 6 slots to fill, and each one has at minimum 24 skill choices after runes. And never once will you be penalized when you dislike a skill. Don;t like it? Don;t use it.

4) There are far more unique builds in D3 than D2. In D2 most lower level abilities are not endgame viable unless you use synergy cheese (which are a RECENT invention). In D2 using any build that relies on more than 4 active skills is not only unwieldy it is limited by skill points severely. In D2 the skill system is an enemy you have to conquer to create a viable build, and in order to do well you HAVE to rely on only a handful of skills.


These builds where yo spread out your skills are only viable in a HANDFUL of cases and only with abilities with % scaling or abilities related to weapons. D3 decided to ditch a system that was more spreadsheet than fun and instread reward you for leveling up with an ever increasing array of abilities and ways to kit yourself unique compared to any other player. There are AT MINIMUM 24^6 skill layouts for any class. Before passives which multiply that even FURTHER (roughly by 16^3). In D2 there were roughly 7 endgame viable spels for sraight 20's and maybe certain kits (mostly Necro/Barb/Druid/Paladin) could spread their points out further depending on how much they wanted to use their weapons. I've played D2 since its RELEASE I know the mechanics. On the other hand you seem to have played D3 for ten minutes or not at all.

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Your point that you can make a bad build, and its a good point, if there was no respect. So there are no bad points, only good ones.

D2 only gained respecs like 4 months ago. And you have to jump through hoops if you want to respec more than three times. If you can respec though why do skill points matter? D3 accomplishes the SAME THING with fewer moving parts therefore allowing a wider degree of balance.

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They made it so people don't make mistakes, but limited us others who like RPG elements and freedom.

1) 24^6 minimum builds for any class. Minimum before passives and assuming only 24 skills per class. Most classes have 30 IIRC

2) Skill points were a punishment for not knowing what exactly you wanted until patch 1.13

3) Stats never mattered for 90% of D2 players becvase they realized how terrible Str/Dex/Energy were compared to having three times the HP. Items give you all the stats you needed.

You want your RPG elements? Actually consider that you have more build freedom in D3. That there are wider degrees of kitting yourself with passives that accentuate your playstyle, or equipment that suits you. Removing skill points let them expand viable options. You want to play a Wizard in melee? They gave you skills in your kit and made it so you can equip the weapons/armor to make it work. Will you be as good as a Barb? Of course not the melee classes get 30% base damage reduction. But you have more tools than the Sorc ever had to pull it off.

*VOMITS*

Stating there are multiple builds per class is not true. There is one build for each class and the game builds it for you. You can change around the skills all you want, but its the same.