This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

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Die_Scream wrote:

IMO:

PoE is an excellent game, ruined by the orbs and infuriating random (read: usually lose progress) crafting system. Destroys it for me personally.

D3 is an excellent game, ruined by the complete lack of decision making by the player. Level up and the game decides everything for you. "You get these spells, these attributes, and we'll even decide which hotkey/mouse button each spell is mapped to for you". I can't haven't figured out how to remap my hotkeys like in PoE at least.

Mouse button 1 must(!) be your primary skill (which we selected for you). Boggles the mind.

Anyway, Grim Dawn and TL2 will be along soon.

Options: Turn on Elective mode

Grats, you now have full control of keymapping. The customizing options in D3 are also far deeper than D2 simply because you care more about gear (later in the game they said base stats will be pretty much obsolete)

I personally love PoE's crafting system to get those top end items either from luck or spending tons of Orbs till you get the Exact combo =\.

Been wondering with Orbs of Chances though, don't imagine increased rarity effects them?

But wondering if would be conceivable to get what you want in a white, get it to 20%, right sockets, links etc.

Then spam it with Scouring and Chance for a High quality Yellow or the Uni version of that item.

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Autocthon wrote:

The customizing options in D3 are also far deeper than D2 simply because you care more about gear.

This is untrue in my opinion and also one of the biggest turn offs of D3 for me.
In D2, PoE, Titan Quest, you name it, there are SO many more affixes that determine the sort of gear you'll get it's not even funny anymore. If you've played the D3 beta, you'll notice 75% of the items that drop have extra XP, gold, health globes on kill and the other 25% consists of extra damage (real build changer!) or thorns.

The problem for me is D3's customization looks as if it's catered to children or non-gamers. There's a reason the DPS and defense number on the item tooltips are huge: it's because this is the number that will matter most 95% of the time. All the rest on the item looks as if it will not be a build changer. In my ARPGs I like it when item choice is dictated by build choice, or in other words, they support each other to form a whole.

If I can pick any combination of 6 skills in D3 to create a somewhat viable build, I at LEAST want it to mean that you need at least 2-3 different item sets to support those builds. But that goes against Blizzard's new ideology where you're supposed to be able to click randomly on the UI and get a viable build and the items will support that no matter what.

Just my 2 cents, I'm not hating on D3, I do feel the game has a lot of polish and looks like it's achieved what it wanted to achieve. That goal is just not the one I personally wanted to see achieved.

So I'm sticking with PoE, at least until I get to try other ARPGs that have yet to come out :)

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Ragura wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

The customizing options in D3 are also far deeper than D2 simply because you care more about gear.

This is untrue in my opinion and also one of the biggest turn offs of D3 for me.
In D2, PoE, Titan Quest, you name it, there are SO many more affixes that determine the sort of gear you'll get it's not even funny anymore. If you've played the D3 beta, you'll notice 75% of the items that drop have extra XP, gold, health globes on kill and the other 25% consists of extra damage (real build changer!) or thorns.

And you only have access to 3GB of a 15GB game in the beta. Of that most of it is artwork, so you only really have access to about 10% of the game. Before they rebalanced items once they were sure the loot generation was working there were more items to work with and more affixes.

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The problem for me is D3's customization looks as if it's catered to children or non-gamers. There's a reason the DPS and defense number on the item tooltips are huge: it's because this is the number that will matter most 95% of the time. All the rest on the item looks as if it will not be a build changer. In my ARPGs I like it when item choice is dictated by build choice, or in other words, they support each other to form a whole.

If I can pick any combination of 6 skills in D3 to create a somewhat viable build, I at LEAST want it to mean that you need at least 2-3 different item sets to support those builds. But that goes against Blizzard's new ideology where you're supposed to be able to click randomly on the UI and get a viable build and the items will support that no matter what.

Once items start dropping class specific affixes that will change. But that won't happen until later levels. DOES ANYONE READ BLIZZARD'S D3 BLOG?

Also at leats on the wizard I had a sense of "Do I want a claymore or sword and shield" because without my shield I was WAY too squishy.

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Just my 2 cents, I'm not hating on D3, I do feel the game has a lot of polish and looks like it's achieved what it wanted to achieve. That goal is just not the one I personally wanted to see achieved.

So I'm sticking with PoE, at least until I get to try other ARPGs that have yet to come out :)

You can't judge a gam based on the 10% of its content available in a basic beta test. Blizzard says that later items will get progressively more interesting.

On top of that any boohooing on the skill system is based on a misinformed illusion of choice presented in most ARPGs. Any smart player in D2 knew that you put the bare muinimum required stats into Str/Dex and poured the rest into vitality. Even if you were a sorceress more than 20-40 points in energy was a waste because of how much mana you could get off the right equips. Skills were the same way, most viable builds relied on one or two skills cheesed up for fast effects. At the end of the game the only choice you made was what skill you wanted to spam (or if you were a barb what weapons you wanted to spam your skill with).

The new skill setup in D3 is actualy a pretty big step forward. The best loadouts will all be planned out and use elective mode of course. Blizzard has STATED that they edorse strong players using elective mode, and that normal (and especialy early in normal) is a trutorial of sorts for new players. Nightmare/Hell/Inferno are where the REAL players will start to get their fix.

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Autocthon wrote:

The new skill setup in D3 is actualy a pretty big step forward.

Its not a big step in right direction. They said that at least all skills are balanced, so using the system from d2, with d3 balanced skill would be much better than current shallow system, that improved somthing, but removed and made it more simple in other thing.

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miljan wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

The new skill setup in D3 is actualy a pretty big step forward.

Its not a big step in right direction. They said that at least all skills are balanced, so using the system from d2, with d3 balanced skill would be much better than current shallow system, that improved somthing, but removed and made it more simple in other thing.

In D2 you used two or three skills with the illusion that you were specializing. In D3 they removed the illusion.

There is no change there. Only making you feel less like a special snowflake. There's like 6^6 minimum skill loadouts in D3. Literally. 6 choices per skill minimum in how you use it, 6 slots to fill. Like 30 skills per class. There's already so much more skill loadout customization just there that I don't understand how people can feel "more restricted".

In D2 there was an illusion of choice filed with traps. Anyone who had any clue what they were doing knew that putting points in the early skills was a trap that only weakened you later (in the majority of cases). You saved your skills to get an "immediate" 20 points in the capstone skill of your choice which was almost without exception better than anything else in the skill tree. Anyone who didn't do so was asking to get their asses handed to them in Hell. Or earlier even.

Just because something is needlessly complicated or involved does not make it "better". D2's skill system was no more customizable than D3's is and had far more traps.

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Autocthon wrote:

In D2 you used two or three skills with the illusion that you were specializing.

What's your definition of the word specialising, that it doesn't include "choosing to focus in one/a few areas out of a wider available spectrum"? There's no illusion of specialising in D2. As long as you weren't doing something nuts like putting five points in everything, then you were specialising.

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Autocthon wrote:

There is no change there. Only making you feel less like a special snowflake. There's like 6^6 minimum skill loadouts in D3. Literally. 6 choices per skill minimum in how you use it, 6 slots to fill. Like 30 skills per class. There's already so much more skill loadout customization just there that I don't understand how people can feel "more restricted".


In D2 there was an illusion of choice filed with traps. Anyone who had any clue what they were doing knew that putting points in the early skills was a trap that only weakened you later (in the majority of cases). You saved your skills to get an "immediate" 20 points in the capstone skill of your choice which was almost without exception better than anything else in the skill tree. Anyone who didn't do so was asking to get their asses handed to them in Hell. Or earlier even.


Just because something is needlessly complicated or involved does not make it "better". D2's skill system was no more customizable than D3's is and had far more traps.

I see mate you dont understand what i am saying. You didnt use d2 skills becouse they were not balanced, not becouse of skill tree or skill points. Tell me if you used skill tree and skill points in d3 without synergy, would it make you go for high skill? No, becouse you need lower skill for resorce regenartion. Also how blizard says all skill are balanced now, so tell me what is bad if skill points and skill tree are implemented in d3?

Why do you want a skill tree so badly? Has it got any advatanges over the current way to handle it?

BTW, I don't get why PoE fans hate on the D3 skill system, as it's in essence very similar to PoEs. Only much richer and more varied.

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Autocthon wrote:

In D2 you used two or three skills with the illusion that you were specializing. In D3 they removed the illusion.

And for me, one of the major features of any RPG is "you can specialize". Getting rid of that is, for me, like removing my primary motivation of playing in the first place.

Yes, I do play a character so he feels special to me. If that makes me a snowflake is debatable, though. Having six sides feels a bit angular to me.


*shrug* Anyway, I feel that Diablo III completely obliterates that "specialisation" feel. Which is why I say: It may very well have evolved, but not in the direction I would have liked.