This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

I never said my definition of fun was absolute. I simply pointed out, in one game, Diablo 3, I have an "Option" of rerolling.

In the other, Path of Exile, in many cases, I am "Forced" into rerolling.

One person stated that the reason they dislike Diablo 3 is because they asked the question. Why would I ever make a new character of this class.

So I ask an equally legitimate question for Path of Exile. Why should I be forced to reroll the same class instead of continuing on playing the game.

You answered, because rerolling is fun. To which I say, perhaps if all you are doing is attempting a new build, but not necessarily if it is to correct an entire character. Counters I have heard to this, is that you shouldn't have screwed up your character that much so it should not be much of a fix.

That line of logic is completely and entirely with 100% proof backing it, false. You may think someone should not screw up their build enough to need that big a fix, that does not stop it from legitimately happening.

I am asking a legitimate question. Why should I in your game Path of Exile, be forced to reroll a character just to continue playing a game I enjoy. I just want to reiterate that for a second, to continue to play a game I enjoy, I must play from level 1 doing parts that, while I might have enjoyed, I would rather be spending those hours progressing.

Saying I should plan my build better is bull, you can not prepare for every variable within potential encounters until you get there, and the flaws in your build could be and many times our, too great to fix.

I am not questioning your individual taste in fun. I am asking you a very damn good legitimate question. If a reason exists for liking Diablo 3 happens to be why would I ever remake the same class. To which I ask, why should I be forced to remake the same class. To which one answer I receive is because it's fun. Indicating you find it fun to replay the same class once more. Then it suggests it is not about the replayed game, but rather about something else. IE changing the fundamentals of the particular class you chose via passives. Not actually replaying from the beginning of the game.

As in the joy you are receiving is from remaking the character, not from replaying the game. Otherwise you would like Diablo 3, because you can replay the game any time you want.

I am not disagreeing you like PoE. I am disagreeing with the reasoning being, why would I ever reroll a class in Diablo 3, and then answering for PoE why you like it is to enjoy replaying the game. You can do that in D3 so I am only stating you are not doing it purely out of enjoyment of replaying the game from level 1.

Unless you are comparing them both as the sake of beta, in which case, yes PoE is certainly a more whole beta, and I did play more hours in it then the D3 beta over a similar time frame. But this would be a false comparison even for argument sake as what is currently PoE is a more whole game as it is more of a game in Development as opposed to an example of a game being released soon.

Don't dismiss my question of why I should be forced to reroll a class I would more enjoy playing through the content with without restarting the game from level as a useless whine post. I begged to get into this game, enjoyed the hell out of it, would still be, could still be, the game is plenty playable and replayable over and over again. That does not mean I should be forced, yes forced to reroll from level 1 to fix a very grave error I did not see the problem with until level 50 because those orbs are not common enough.

We have different sense of fun. I get that, you enjoy a masochistic approach, I enjoy being able to play the same class non stop over and over again for hundreds of hours on end progressing through the games content. What bothers me is when the developers brick wall me with something I can not get past, and my only option is to reroll or suffer more grinding then the reroll would take.

You can think all you want that it's a better style of game, the game you all think so fondly of (Diablo 2 fyi) eventually realized how wrong it's system was, and you can call it catering to the casuals all you want. They call it some thing a bit different, and since you seem to believe the word of a developer is all that matters here it is from Blizzard.

They did not cater to the casual player, they just realized restarting the character you had become attached to from level 1 was not any fun. That it added a false sense of replayability.

GGG has a good game going here, but they are going by Blizzards almost identical old stance with Diablo 2. New build means new character so a new character should be created to go with the new build.

I care about this game, I do. So I want a legitimate answer. Why am I being forced to reroll a character, when you want players to progress, and play the end game for endless hours on end? Why brick wall them and force them to start from level 1 to try and progress again to the end game? Is your end game lacking in fun and challenge enough that you feel the need to stop people in their tracks and relevel for several hours to keep them playing because there is otherwise nothing there? I may never know, because you keep brick walling players like me. Saying there is absolutely nothing you can do to add a larger player base your way? No paid transaction? No several day cool downs? Nothing? You the game designers are literally going to force me to replay from level 1 if I make just that large an error.

Like I said, I could play this game for hundreds of hours, same characters, same areas, over and over again. Make me start from my weaker self after investing that much into "My character" make me lose "My character" for all intents and purposes and restart "My character" To do it right? Attachment to a character? Why should I have it. You are telling me if I mess up enough I don't deserve how far he got.

Yeah you "hardcores" may like it just fine, I get it. But you'll be wishing players like me, who are hardcore enough to keep playing for hundreds of hours, but not restart from level 1 were around when that time comes.

I do hope your game does well. No really I do. I hope it makes money and achieves a huge player base, or at least 200k active players.

And I hope they realize having some leeway is better then their current system at some point.

Creating a character is a game in a game. They are forcing you to create a new character if you really fuck up your build, so hard that even respect and orb of regreat can't fix it. The reason why you need to start again is because you made a mistake in creating a character, and people that didn't make a mistake should not be same as people that make a mistake. The main reason is ladder I think. This game is more competitive than d3. There is ladder, week races with prices, open PvP and probably even more thing coming later. I would have nothing against a league where you could respect free when ever you want.

They "force" you to reroll because the game is about developing a character and the fun is in that journey. It is not about a MMO mentality of quickly grinding to max level and then grinding better gear.

There is nothing wrong in liking or preferring the latter, but it is not what Diablo games were or should be.

This is at the core of why Diablo 3 will be so divisive. They needed a middle ground like they had planned in 2010, but instead they decided to completely go to the MMO/grind model and simplify it for consoles.

Does not make it a bad game, just a completely different one that the previous installments and for many a serious step backward

I like how someone says it's about the journey. While I see people in this game, and Diablo 2, grinding out levels as fast as humanly possible, and with a straight face, saying it's about the journey.

With a game developer called GRINDING gear games.

Yeah this isn't even an argument. Saying that any of these games are anything other then the grind is not even laughable at best. It's just an outright lie.

ARPGS have always been a grind. Calling it a journey is used for one purpose and one purpose only. Acting full of yourself. People have said it repeatedly themselves. With their leagues and ladders this game is about grinding to as high a level as possible as quickly as possible. How is it about the journey when you go as fast as possible?

I'm all for you enjoying your game. Really I am. I want this to be popular to a large playerbase I do. But outright lying? Yes, yes you are. Saying these types of games is about the journey is only valid on the first playthrough. It takes a very unique mindset to continue to say it's about the journey, when every indication of this "Journey" Filled game is about the grind as quick as possible.

It really is an argument... it's THE argument.

If you cannot fix your character with orbs of regret, and you don't actually want to be troubled to make a new character... then perhaps there's something wrong with the game that you should explore and make suggestions with (other than free rerolls).

POE has been made to support players making multiple characters with multiple builds in multiple leagues for multiple years.

If major changes are made, there will probably be free resets... otherwise, minor tweaks to a build for balance purposes without the ability to respec at will, simply means you can't willy-nilly jump between exploitative builds... this promotes building a well-rounded character as opposed to the flavor of the month.

Free respecs whenever, simply promotes players jumping to the flavor of the month, as opposed to putting in the effort to build an interesting character that they enjoy playing, because they enjoy that play style.

If you find really cool items that a particular build would support better than your current character... build a new character. If building a new character and the anticipation of how cool they will perform with those things you found isn't fun, then ... something else is wrong.

So in other words, you play arpgs for the sole purpose of saying you have a bigger number than other people? If it's not about the journey (actually playing and enjoying the game) then what else is left? If it really is just about having a bigger number for you then I would suggest you reevaluate your life priorities. If you truly don't enjoy the experience of playing through an arpg then why are you playing one? I'm just confused by your argument because it's very circular and Catch-22.

The difference here is purely subjective, some people are placing emphasis on the strategy and planning involved with making a great build. Others could give a crap about planning or strategy, they just want to have fun, right now.

There isn't a right or wrong opinion, just opinions, but at the end of the day the developers have clearly ruled in favor of one over the other. So, either you accept that and move on, or it becomes a game breaker for you... and you move on.

Some people like to build cars and some people just want to buy them, but both of them can still love to drive cars.

"

RodHull wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

"

RodHull wrote:

To be fair thepmrc (or whatever hes called) admitted openly to trolling not more than a few pages back.

Quote or STFU, please. ='[.]'=

Ready to look like an ass??

"

thepmrc wrote:

I have kept an open mind, you guys just cant fathom someone having a differing opinion so it devolved into me trolling.

From page 28... read it and weep

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

Again, if you feel at any time that someone is being way out of line, please let a moderator know.

As you can see above he did indeed admit to outright trolling, but Id never report him, honestly if he wants to make a fool of himself and totally devalue any argument he made thats his lookout, I was merely pointing out that usually such an admission would be an instant infraction on most boards...

But for the record Im glad thats not the case here, however I do think when this game gathers more steam and gets closer to release some much heavier handed moderating will be required or the forums will be overrun with trolling/flaming, being a F2P game attracts some of the worst forum users possible.

What makes one "look like an ass" (aside from comments just like that one) is to accuse someone of trolling without backing it up. Otherwise, those who read threads casually (and who don't care to bother going back and fact-checking your observation) have nothing to base their interpretations your statement on but hearsay.

We get enough of that sort of garbage from the so-called "news media," which, these days, can make pretty much any sort of claim, and expect the vast majority of those who hear the story to accept it as gospel. So, for you to observe something so specific about another poster without benefit of a quote requires those who read your post to either take its accuracy on faith, or consider that, just perhaps, you might be less than accurate.

Bravo, then, for you having dredged up the requisite documentary quote. thepmrc did, indeed, admit to trolling, and that's unfortunate. It tends to discredit one's every statement when one is confirmed to have behaved trollishly.

Too bad, then, that so many others who do won't come clean, yeah? However regrettable, I fail to weep at these truths. =^[.]^=

"

Ultreos wrote:

I like how someone says it's about the journey. While I see people in this game, and Diablo 2, grinding out levels as fast as humanly possible, and with a straight face, saying it's about the journey.

With a game developer called GRINDING gear games.

Yeah this isn't even an argument. Saying that any of these games are anything other then the grind is not even laughable at best. It's just an outright lie.

ARPGS have always been a grind. Calling it a journey is used for one purpose and one purpose only. Acting full of yourself. People have said it repeatedly themselves. With their leagues and ladders this game is about grinding to as high a level as possible as quickly as possible. How is it about the journey when you go as fast as possible?

I'm all for you enjoying your game. Really I am. I want this to be popular to a large playerbase I do. But outright lying? Yes, yes you are. Saying these types of games is about the journey is only valid on the first playthrough. It takes a very unique mindset to continue to say it's about the journey, when every indication of this "Journey" Filled game is about the grind as quick as possible.

Except may people DO NOT just grind out levels as quickly as possible. You like the end game grindy MMO style of gameplay that D3 offers. Fine. But it is not the gameplay many people want.

This game has competitive leagues designed and specifically catered to grinding out levels as quickly as possible. Do I need to give you more evidence within the boundaries of this game or do you just turn a blind eye to the exact nature of the game you play for the sake of proving an argument you enjoy more?

The game can in fact be like a journey to you. Saying Diablo 3 is less a journey then PoE is a lie, because for the same reason they are both a journey, they are both equally a grind.

Turning a blind eye is easy for both sides of the spectrum.

Your game supports the intentional nature of grinding as quickly as possible in a competitive league. If this game was more about the journey then Diablo is, why is your game promoting getting levels as fast as possible to compete with others.

Or do you prefer blind eyeing that as well.

I did not say you aren't free to enjoy that game.

I asked you not to outright lie.