Hall of Grandmasters legit suggestions (not complaints!)

a - you are missing something. like already mentioned, numerous things like BCR gems and etc, balefire or etc, having stronger defenses... it all depends on your respective strengths/weaknesses.

but fo'real, anyone can just cheese it with a balefire.

b - depends on the promenade tier. so it's possible, but ggg likes to shift the base tiers all around every few leagues, so... i doubt promenade would be a high tier fixture.

c - dunno, it's largely up to you. imo, this is where the game's become rather pointless due to power creep negating the point of grinding to obtain better gear...

One aspect where it gets really obvious that this map doesn't fit is the fact that several grandmasters in there use CI. When I first ran into that map with my chaos-only build I of course couldn't finish it and was pretty pissed why a league where they heavily advertised the new chaos spells would contain a map a chaos-only char simply can't do.

I then leveled a scorching ray gem and tried it again yesterday and it was fairly easy. Loot was abysmal, though...

Imho, I think this grandmaster stuff should be somehow moved to the PVP area. Besides the CI and other issues, the way the map is built doesn't do those builds justice. You have to fight several at the same time so nobody can really appreciate individual ones, I can't even remember one name.

If it's in PVP it could be made so that players can chose to fight any of the grandmasters, one or many at the same time and in what arena. I think that'd be much more fun and would probably also bring more people to try PvP.

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KawaiiPandaX wrote:

(C) If I'm not supposed to be completing the Atlas, what exactly should I be doing in the post-game?

challenges. only reason temporary leagues exist.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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Head_Less wrote:

With that logic you are playing pvp each time you face igna phoenix.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, Igna Phenix doesn't have PvP scaling. It deals damage according to PvE mechanics, with damage calculated depending on the area she's in, and is dealt damage through PvE mechanics, without T values and other PvP-specific stuff like that.
She doesn't have any immunities that would make certain builds incapable of doing it anything, or defenses designed to be impassable through normal means, etc...

It is two separate things here.

-Yes exiles don t have pvp scaling and so in lower map tiers without mods they don t hurt at all.

Comparatively the fact they don t have pvp scaling means that in maps with crazy mods and high tiers they can 2 shot you (unless GGG decide the nerf them so they deal 0 damage even with mods). In past not long ago Igna could 1 shot you in lower maps even but they nerfed it.

This mean that exile potentially can hit you harder than PVP characters simply because nothing (no pvp caling) can control their high end dps (only GGG nerfing hands) .

PVP scaling is really there just to protect players from getting 1 shot from high tooltype damage (and it fail when players bypass it with negative cast speed or elemental penetration)

Take this tool for example:

https://poepvpdps.winewall.eu/

This is a pvp damage calculator.

You can see that with pvp scaling

a 5000 - 50000 with 3 aps (82500 raw damage )and no penetration deal only 2725 dps.

You would need 100 penetration to even get to 6900 pvp damage.
You need 100% crit chance and 450 crit multi to obtain similar damage of 100% penetration.

And those numbers are made with a virtual skill having no pvp penalty. If those damage would be dealt with flicker strike for example you would need to take in consideration the 30% less pvp damage applied to the skill.

So, pvp scaling is actually protecting players from 1 shot unless extreme investment in damage.

IF HOGM did not have pvp scaling I can guarantee you would not even pass the first gate. Everything from default attack would already 1 shot.






-Pvp scaling is flawed when we talk about defense however.

Since pvp scaling is supposedly protecting players from 1 shot, it render defenses like ES regen-recharge terribly powerful.

This is why you get "immortal" builds in pvp , because they actually abuse the fact the scaling will make it impossible with average gear to deal 15k pvp damage which seems to be the number to Start bursting 10k es+ + 7k+ es recharge players.


Fault is there in GGG hands, My position atm (and it s only mine, not all pvpers will agree) is they should cap regen in pvp as well as penetration so neither dps or defense is too broken beside using extrem mirror level gear t.



HOGM brokenness is in fact depending on GGG goodwill to balance pvp formulas and conditions.

If they let the map as it is now and don t change pvp formula I see only one reason and it s that they actually agree players can be semi-immortal in pvp format and in HOGM. (or they just don t care about HOGM) GGG is simply passively agreeing by not reviewing regen and penetration that balefire is necessary in HOGM.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

Well, Igna (and other rogue exiles) is balanced and obeys the same balance rules as other PvE content. Sure, she may become insanely strong at certain levels and mods, but in the same way any other rare or unique mob would. This is, in my opinion, what distinguishes her from Grandmasters, which obey an entirely different set of rules, that you have to learn separately from the rest of the game.

This is of course a valid argument, I would just argue that in my opinion POE is a game were everything from trade to maps to delve to playing melee have very different rules or gameplay point. The only difference I see is that compared to pvp/HOGM players have more chance to try and acquire those skills. If we have some sort of cutthroat game like in D2, players would be very quick to get the pvp scaling/formula.

Maybe this is why the maps have such a low level, maybe GGG wanted players to have access to it more often so they can learn the same way they learn to play melee or ranged. Maybe the problem here is the death penalty.

Let s say instead of loosing XP in HOGM, the map was offering only 1 portal and you would simply loose the map if you die. Players could learn the mechanism of this AI simulation of PVP without raging from loosing xp. Anyway the reward is shit.


I wanted also to add on the pvp scaling:
"You would need 100 penetration to even get to 6900 pvp damage.
You need 100% crit chance and 450 crit multi to obtain similar damage of 100% penetration."

This means that reduced extra damage when taking a crit almost counter totally those old glass canon builds on HOGM. This guy who used lightning arrow to 1 shot people.

They now (pvp players) changed from crit multi to penetration in order to avoid being countered, hence my plea for capping penetration ( and the plea of my brother).

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

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Head_Less wrote:

(...)
This is of course a valid argument, I would just argue that in my opinion POE is a game were everything from trade to maps to delve to playing melee have very different rules or gameplay point. The only difference I see is that compared to pvp/HOGM players have more chance to try and acquire those skills. If we have some sort of cutthroat game like in D2, players would be very quick to get the pvp scaling/formula.
(...)

What if, when killing another player's character (usually in PvP), you had a 0.1% chance to loot a HoGM (Hall of Grand Masters)? Even within arena or XvsX, of course.
You would be getting the content when engaging with its mechanics, thus the learning issue would be solved?

That's a cool suggestion.
I was thinking more in terms of HoGM Fragments (like Atziri Fragments or Pale Council Fragments).
But unlocking HoGM by doing PvP is better.

Doing so would infuriate players if HOGM was tied to atlas and only be able to be farmed in pvp.