Hall of Grandmasters legit suggestions (not complaints!)

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johnKeys wrote:

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Head_Less wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

It's a PvP scaled map, with player characters and skills.
.

With that logic you are playing pvp each time you face igna phoenix.

True. But I face her, and her crazy friend Xandro, in a PvE scaled zone with a bunch of monsters. Kind of like old D2 PvP if one of the PCs would be controlled by software, have Non-player HP, and wouldn't be attacked by monsters.

In Path Of Exile the PvP is arena based, and HoGM is just another arena. Like Sarn. Like the 1v1 zones and 3v3 zones.

I mean the pvp scaling is really there to protect players so they don t get 1 shot by a sneeze.

I can understand why the lack of pve mobs around could fuck a build if they rely on vaal skills or herald explosion or leech but i don t know why you would want pve scaling.

And I get it, pvp is not enjoyed by the poe main audience. Sadly it is all because GGG never cared to balance it (out of some skills T-value changes) once the LLD crap failed. Why would you enjoy LLD in a game were leveling is the main purpose I still don t get it.

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johnKeys wrote:

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Head_Less wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

It's a PvP scaled map, with player characters and skills.
.

With that logic you are playing pvp each time you face igna phoenix.

True. But I face her, and her crazy friend Xandro, in a PvE scaled zone with a bunch of monsters. Kind of like old D2 PvP if one of the PCs would be controlled by software, have Non-player HP, and wouldn't be attacked by monsters.

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johnKeys wrote:

In Path Of Exile the PvP is arena based, and HoGM is just another arena. Like Sarn. Like the 1v1 zones and 3v3 zones.

...are you SERIOUSLY backpedaling so hard that you're now suggesting that the grandmasters spawn OUTSIDE of hogm?

hahahahahahahahaahahaha

recap:

- 'optional mandatory' (lolwut?)
- opinion is that it's mandatory (fact > opinion, especially when the opinion is disproven by fact)
- sextants! (huh? this one never even made sense to begin with)
- unique characters (see above)
- pvp scaling (...still waiting to hear an explanation for this complaint)
- you'd be better off without a bonus (?????)
- i'm a bot (hurr durr)
- i'm a troll (this contradicts the above)
- pvp limited to "arena" (...i mean, i'm ALLL FOR cut-throat and going "hostile" (ala d2), but i can't fathom this is what you want, given your complaints about terribad pvp-esque bots in 1 map...)

i can't even find an argument for removing hogm in this mess.

@Head_Less, edited my post.

@Rob, why do I bother with you? I mean honestly you moved from parsing text, to parsing it backwards.
Do you consider yourself amusing?
Why are you here?

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johnKeys wrote:

@Head_Less, edited my post.

@Rob, why do I bother? I mean honestly you moved from parsing text to parsing it backwards.
Do you consider yourself amusing?
Why are you here?

and yet, everything i typed was factual.

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robmafia wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

@Head_Less, edited my post.

@Rob, why do I bother? I mean honestly you moved from parsing text to parsing it backwards.
Do you consider yourself amusing?
Why are you here?

and yet, everything i typed was factual.

Everything you typed, is meant to annoy the fuck out of me. Either by taking direct shots, baiting, or just being an imbecile.
None of it is on thread topic. You just shadow people who disagree with me and know how to actually write on-topic, and respond with "lol".
What is the purpose of you, existing, here?

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johnKeys wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

@Head_Less, edited my post.

@Rob, why do I bother? I mean honestly you moved from parsing text to parsing it backwards.
Do you consider yourself amusing?
Why are you here?

and yet, everything i typed was factual.

Everything you typed, is meant to annoy the fuck out of me. Either by taking direct shots, baiting, or just being an imbecile.
None of it is on thread topic. You just shadow people who disagree with me and know how to actually write on-topic, and respond with "lol".
What is the purpose of you, existing, here?

literally ALL of it was about the thread topic/things YOU said.

it's not my fault that you have yet to make a single argument that's based on facts/evidence/logic/reality.

show me ONE instance of this. you won't. because it's as real as the mandatory hogm, hogm extra sextant, and etc. ie: false. this literally happened zero times.

you resorted to ad-hom, strawman, and countless absurd accusations. tell me more about trolling.

You are getting ignored from this point forward.
No amount of pink text will change that.

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robmafia wrote:

...are you SERIOUSLY backpedaling so hard that you're now suggesting that the grandmasters spawn OUTSIDE of hogm?

hahahahahahahahaahahaha

recap:

- 'optional mandatory' (lolwut?)
- opinion is that it's mandatory (fact > opinion, especially when the opinion is disproven by fact)
- sextants! (huh? this one never even made sense to begin with)
- unique characters (see above)
- pvp scaling (...still waiting to hear an explanation for this complaint)
- you'd be better off without a bonus (?????)
- i'm a bot (hurr durr)
- i'm a troll (this contradicts the above)
- pvp limited to "arena" (...i mean, i'm ALLL FOR cut-throat and going "hostile" (ala d2), but i can't fathom this is what you want, given your complaints about terribad pvp-esque bots in 1 map...)

i can't even find an argument for removing hogm in this mess.

Well, that's because there isn't one. This entire thread, from the beginning, has made no sense, which is why my first 3 posts were variations on "what are you even talking about."

The closest anyone comes to making a coherent point is when they say that HOGM isn't a high enough map tier to reflect its difficulty, but even this falls short because ALL unique maps take their tier and atlas position from the base they're attached to. And it's not like GGG doesn't give players visual clues NOT TO RUN THIS IF THEIR BUILD IS BAD... I want to know who picks up HOGM for the first time and reads "Contains the Immortalized Grandmasters" and says to themselves, "This sounds pretty easy."

But ALL OF THAT is completely beside my primary point, which is that removing/hiding content just because people get sad when they can't beat it is NEVER the right choice. It solves absolutely nothing, unfairly punishes players who enjoyed interacting with that content, creates new obfuscation problems, and makes the entire game that much shallower by catering to people Path of Exile was not intended to satisfy at the expense of the core audience.

Edit/Update: I asked a guy I work with who plays lots of RPGs (but doesn't play POE) how hard he'd expect HOGM to be. It's a little long, so I'm gonna hide it in a spoiler tag, but the TL/DR is that he assumed 8/10 difficulty based solely on the description, which I think means the map is significantly easier than advertised.

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johnKeys wrote:

You are getting ignored from this point forward.
No amount of pink text will change that.

i'm so surprised that the accusation was not supported and was immediately evaded. /s

OP here. Sorry I started such a fracas? I was just trying to find a solution that could appeal to both sides. I saw that this was contentious topic, but I decided to give it a go anyway. Some points of clarity, because I feel like some things are being said on my behalf that aren't particularly correct (and to provide some further context):

(A) I never once said the content was too hard, or that I felt I should get something for no effort. I got through a wing and change in my first (and only) attempt. If I had a lot of attempts, if I made the right build, or if I had the right gear, I'm sure I could tick that off. Reminder: I'm playing SSF, so I can't exert a ton of influence over what gear I collect or what maps I find, and I don't particularly enjoy reworking my build to finish some particular content. The joy I get out of the game is seeing how far I can get with a certain build. I got pretty far with this one, but had no chance in HoG. If you think that this content should be for non SSF players only, that's fine, but it's a shame that I feel like I'm missing out on something.

(B) Making map be higher tier is probably the most reasonable suggestion I've heard. I CAN with my current build and gear complete tier 14+ maps pretty consistently. So having such a high point of friction with this one map that seems to be such a low tier was really unexpected. And as for "I should have known because of xyz text" - that's also not really how I play games either. It's fun to experience the content. I'm not going to google "what's in the next room" every time.

(C) If I'm not supposed to be completing the Atlas, what exactly should I be doing in the post-game? Reminder: in SSF, I don't get to choose the content I play very precisely. I have to faff about a bit and wait for certain drops (maps, sulphite, syndicate members, etc.). There doesn't seem to be much else to do to distract from that grind.

Anyway, back to calling me and each other bad names.