Hall of Grandmasters legit suggestions (not complaints!)

I've read most of the thread, and you won't be able to refute anything that I said in this previous post of mine as those are simple facts.


HogM is NOT PvP or anything related to actual PvP, period.

Don't care about the rest of the pages of this thread but I did read OP so I thought..

what if the shaper's realm gives you 2% with the removal of HOGM from completion?

"

Fruz wrote:

I've read most of the thread, and you won't be able to refute anything that I said in this previous post of mine as those are simple facts.


HogM is NOT PvP or anything related to actual PvP, period.

Man it's PvP scaled, what the heck are you talking about?
I liked the "Player versus Bots" term because it's more accurate. Like playing single-player Quake 3 Arena.
But it certainly isn't comparable to PoE's PvE content.
And it requires some knowledge of how PvP works, gear/broken-build to compensate knowledge gaps, or preferably both.

So to simplify things: I will call it PvP content, and you will say "no" and quote some minor part of my post completely out of context, and we continue as usual.

EDIT: typos. Damn tablet error corrections.

"

johnKeys wrote:

Man it's PvP scaled, what the heck are you talking about?

Math = PvP-style (that's just the usage of numbers, not what the mechanic of PvP is)
Execution: PvE.

You're playing against the environment, not against actual players, hence PvE, simple as that, not more not less.

"

johnKeys wrote:

I liked the "Player versus Bots" term because it's more accurate. Like playing single-player Quake 3 Arena.

That's also a form of PvE, PvB is not term, it's a made up thing which has no actual meaning.

"

johnKeys wrote:

And it requires some knowledge of how PvP works, gear/broken-build to compensate knowledge gaps, or preferably both.

Yes, and Shaper needs you to know his mechanics as well. Or Delve-bosses theirs. Or uber-atziri as a very good example for 'specific builds'.
Treat it like a big boss-area and you're fine, it's literally the same.

"

johnKeys wrote:

So to simply things, I will call it PvP content, and you will say "no" and quote some minor part of my post completely out of context, and we continue as usual.

Well, then people will call you out for using the wrong term - rightfully so - despite you having the knowledge about it.
You see, it's one thing to not know something and therefore be wrong and on the other hand knowing something and still doing it wrong. The first is ok, the second is just either being stubborn, lazy or not smart enough to use it from then on properly.

Kulze doing the Fruz thing, before Fruz can do it.
Well done.
Takes some serious skill to break a 7 line post into out of context quoted sections.

Yes "PvB" is a made up term.
It's also quite literally the single least important thing in that post.

So why don't you please read the whole fucking thing, and at least try to pretend to understand the point?
Disagree? Ok. But do you understand it?

Read. Not "parse". Not "analyze".

Because you're talking about an issue of terminology here.

If you're breaking it down to the core parts of the issue you're describing it's the following:

HoGm uses PvP scaling (scaling only) and sports player-made builds. That's it.
If you would move away from the PvP thing then people could start to argue about the actual things present.

Is HoGm unbalanced in the current situation? Sure it is! We all know that.

What's solutions present?
Removing it from the map-list? Nah, that's the worst one available, patchwork and not something GGG should do.
Which leads us back to part 1, it would punish those players who work towards it to get a reward, not getting it anymore. Bad decision in general.

So, what can actually be done?
Getting the PvP-scaling for skills into a proper state again.
Is it easy? No.

Why isn't is easy?
Because the PvE mechanics are itself flawed in a major way, sure other builds will wipe the floor with you unless you cheese them.

So, the only sensible wholesome solution coming to mind here - at least for me, if someone finds another good one be free - is to adjust the mechanics overall. This would bring first of all the PvE-issues in line again, then GGG can get back to tackling the PvP-scaling as it's actually doable.
Will this be done? Not with the quality of work GGG does since a while now, sadly.
Is it possible? 10 devs for 3 months and it's fixed, period, as a side-effect it also takes care of meta-builds, steamrolling builds and cheesing through content in general.

Is it high on their list? No, MTX and new leagues are their major concern, it squeezes out the money from people, adjusting HoGm does... nothing, maybe 10 people will even nod and say 'ok' while 1000 will be pissed.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

I've read most of the thread, and you won't be able to refute anything that I said in this previous post of mine as those are simple facts.


HogM is NOT PvP or anything related to actual PvP, period.

Man it's PvP scaled, what the heck are you talking about?

If you literally cannot read and understood what I wrote on the previous page ( I don't think it's possible to make it much simpler honestly ), then there is absolutely no 'discussion' to be had here.
But anybody who can use basic logic and read will know that you are writting nonsense about it.


Context does not matter here, HogM is literally NOT PvP, in any way.
PvP means Player versus Player, which HogM is not, period.

"

johnKeys wrote:

@ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate,
not removing and not hiding - moving. From the Atlas (PvE. Main game) into a place PvP players can access. Non-map.

...that's LITERALLY removing the map.

a+


recap:

- 'optional mandatory' (lolwut?)
- opinion is that it's mandatory (fact > opinion, especially when the opinion is disproven by fact)
- sextants! (huh? this one never even made sense to begin with)
- unique characters (see above)
- pvp scaling (...still waiting to hear an explanation for this complaint)
- you'd be better off without a bonus (?????)
- i'm a bot (hurr durr)
- i'm a troll (this contradicts the previous)
- pvp limited to "arena" (...i mean, i'm ALLL FOR cut-throat and going "hostile" (ala d2), but i can't fathom this is what you want, given your complaints about terribad pvp-esque bots in 1 map...)
- wanting grandmasters (that he complained about) to... spawn outside the hogm (??????????????)
- "pvb" (??????????)
- "not removing," just removing (insert facepalm here)

See Kulze? you can explain your view if you want to. you should do it more often than trying to "Fruzify" other's posts to try to discredit them, while intentionally missing their point.

We both agree on a couple things:
1) overall balance is needed, and for that some serious effort is required.
2) GGG will not do it.

I disagree that moving HoGM from the Atlas and into the realm of PvP is patchwork.
it's a solution, in my view.
people here suggested some good ways how that can be achieved.

but see (2) above. not because they can't do "10 devs for 3 months" (although it's difficult from development cycle point of view).
because a hundred thousand dollars and shiny MTX.
because everybody must see the shiny MTX, not just me and Head_Less and a couple more PvP enthusiasts.

EDIT: oh hi Fruz. With you in a minute. need to make sure I have a couple hours free for the usual semantics arguments.

EDIT2: Rob still trying to be funny

So, because you are literally using words that mean something and try to make them mean something else, leading you to absolutely aberrant conclusions .... we are arguing semantic ?

what the flying f....


In what world would you think that players who like PvP like to run that map ?
I bet they freaking don't, for a very simple reason that pretty much everybody has been trying to tell you with explanations as simple as we could make them.



This is all your problem here, because you are writting more and more nonsense on the topic page after page.
Pretty much everybody else has been calling you out on it, it's very simple.