F the labyrinth

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Antaiseito wrote:

Looking forward to my next lab run, lab is so stylish and the boss fight is pretty cool.

Actually a kinda endless lab with boss fights inbetween would be cool in some form :)

Maybe read the poems, they especially talk about the eternals, and the warriors that only know how to fight and will not ascend :|

E: if this had anything to do with italian plumbers you would die by mis-targeting a leap slam into a bottomless hole ...

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Xavathos wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

What bewilders me about this "optional" defense is that we are actually trying to make this type of gameplay truly optional and with that they disagree. I guess then it becomes too optional for them? lol

Wrong. You're asking for free Ascendancy points and we disagree with that.

The Lab is already optional. A suggestion to make it so would be like suggesting to make water wet.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

That's a different issue IDK why I cant set an items buyout price and do the lab and let people just buy it. The website COULD do that fine.

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Except those same people still play the rest of the game. When it's only the lab that's garnering so much contempt from plyers, it's time to seriously consider the possibility that it's doing something wrong.

Plus, there are design decisions that are just objectively bad. The inability to trade, or re-enter in case of a DC, are just some of them.

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goetzjam wrote:

Re-enter is abuseable and the content is easily done in one run thru.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Can't be "fixed" because its abuseable then.

If we just added re-entry to the current lab design, yes it would be.

However, the idea has been presented before to allow re-entry, but when you do, you are put just after the last completed Izaro phase (or at the start if you haven't beaten phase 1 yet), and if you left during an Izaro fight, that fight resets. In that case, you now have to travel through 2-3 zones full of traps, likely with less trash mobs on the way to get flask charges from, and attempt the fight again from the top. Combined with other possible limitations and/or punishments on re-entry, this would make instalogging out of the lab a non-issue.

Bottom line, the lab could have been designed in such a way as to allow re-entry in case of a disconnect without room for abuse. Despite this, GGG have chosen a design that they must have known would unfairly punish a large number of people. I'm curious to know why.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

What bewilders me about this "optional" defense is that we are actually trying to make this type of gameplay truly optional and with that they disagree. I guess then it becomes too optional for them? lol

Wrong. You're asking for free Ascendancy points and we disagree with that.

The Lab is already optional. A suggestion to make it so would be like suggesting to make water wet.

Lab is free people do it for you for FREE they broadcast it all the time they just want the mats from the run and you to open it.

Any replacement should be the same cost as free. Since it's FREE.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Re-enter is abuseable and the content is easily done in one run thru.

Whether re-enter is abusable or not depends on the rest of how lab is designed.

Regarding Lab re-entry and Chris' recent statements about DCs

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suszterpatt wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Can't be "fixed" because its abuseable then.

If we just added re-entry to the current lab design, yes it would be.

However, the idea has been presented before to allow re-entry, but when you do, you are put just after the last completed Izaro phase (or at the start if you haven't beaten phase 1 yet), and if you left during an Izaro fight, that fight resets. In that case, you now have to travel through 2-3 zones full of traps, likely with less trash mobs on the way to get flask charges from, and attempt the fight again from the top. Combined with other possible limitations and/or punishments on re-entry, this would make instalogging out of the lab a non-issue.

Bottom line, the lab could have been designed in such a way as to allow re-entry in case of a disconnect without room for abuse. Despite this, GGG have chosen a design that they must have known would unfairly punish a large number of people. I'm curious to know why.

Also mentioned in that thread: GGG know for a fact that "a lot of people" (Chris' words, not mine) are being hit by the 6 second DC timer due to internet issues. Instance crashes triggered by bugs in GGG's code will also cause a DC with no chance of re-entry. These are things that GGG knew could cause people to DC in the lab unexpectedly. Regardless, they designed the lab in such a way to unfairly punish these occurences, thus making the lab completely unappealing to "a lot of people" (again, Chris' words, not mine).

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goetzjam wrote:

And I care why?

You are responsible for having a good internet connection, GGG is responsible for the data centers working together and the servers being fine.

If you suffer with connectivity issues with poe, many games are unplayable to you anyway then.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

And I care why?

You are responsible for having a good internet connection, GGG is responsible for the data centers working together and the servers being fine.

If you suffer with connectivity issues with poe, many games are unplayable to you anyway then.

Are you seriously asserting that the end user is 100% responsible for the quality of their internet connections? Like, the ISP doesn't enter into it at all? You need to learn a bit more about how the internet works, I think.

But more to the point, the lab is the only area of the game where a DC will wipe massive amounts of your progress. A DC during the campaign is virtually inconsequential. A DC during mapping costs you a portal, which people typically have spares of. A DC in the lab costs you the entire run. For an uber lab farmer, that could mean anywhere between 6-11 keys' worth of loot chests and 1-3 enchants. Heck, on average that's more currency than you get from an entire map.

Given that non-abusable re-entry would be possible with a better design, can you think of a single good reason why this should be the case instead?

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suszterpatt wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

And I care why?

You are responsible for having a good internet connection, GGG is responsible for the data centers working together and the servers being fine.

If you suffer with connectivity issues with poe, many games are unplayable to you anyway then.

Are you seriously asserting that the end user is 100% responsible for the quality of their internet connections? Like, the ISP doesn't enter into it at all? You need to learn a bit more about how the internet works, I think.

But more to the point, the lab is the only area of the game where a DC will wipe massive amounts of your progress. A DC during the campaign is virtually inconsequential. A DC during mapping costs you a portal, which people typically have spares of. A DC in the lab costs you the entire run. For an uber lab farmer, that could mean anywhere between 6-11 keys' worth of loot chests and 1-3 enchants. Heck, on average that's more currency than you get from an entire map.

Given that non-abusable re-entry would be possible with a better design, can you think of a single good reason why this should be the case instead?

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goetzjam wrote:

Or its time to consider the possibly that you need to get out of your comfort zone every once and a while.