Lair Map -> Boss needs balancing

Which brings us exactly back to my point :

"

Fruz wrote:

Maybe some people prefer playing the game rather than cheezing it ?

call it cheezing i call it clever use of game mechanics with a build that is able to utilize it.

"

zzang wrote:

call it cheezing i call it clever use of game mechanics with a build that is able to utilize it.

Some people thinks a game in Softcore should be BLAMT race.
Just don't understand them.
They can play HC SSF. Good game mode when optional.

"

zzang wrote:

uhm.. not sure where you guys get your information from. I facetank rigwald in t15 dark forest on vulnerability/ double ele damage mods.

What do you mean with "facetank" here?
Based on your other comments it sounds like you kill him before he changes forms.


Edit: typo

"

Zrevnur wrote:

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Spoiler

Didn't read thread, didn't read replies except the usual bad excuses ones like "nah u just don't know what to do etc".

Pull your head out of your arses!

This boss is a fucking monster compared to normal bosses. It regularly rips full groups in dark forest/lair, sometimes almost right away nearly everyone are dead and it's usually 1-2 fighting it or often dying before the end. It's easier solo because its way overtuned so in solo you are more in control of the boss.

All of it's shit does too much damage, the bleed is absolutely insane(and yes it can be removed but doesn't change that it's way too powerful compared to game). The cone thing it does is also ridiculously overtuned, try to compare it to dominus lightning stream and see that you are just talking complete nonsense and absolutely trolling the OP topic with your knee-jerk reactions.

It's because of people like you that we can't have nice things, people that have no clue what they are talking about and still make sure you put in a good amount of posts in just distorting feedback, attacking truthful honest posts because its fun to just attack without thinking. Because you can. Ruining feedback, turning this whole forum into a bog that's much harder to subtract information from because most people will just go on forums to find someone to disagree with and it all turns into a big mudfight in the mudpool.

Not sure whom (and what exactly) you are talking about. But your opinion appears to be "colored" by the current ES sponge meta. Note that I am not saying that Lair boss is properly balanced.

Example: With phys attack mitigation build (and anti-bleed) you can facetank the boss (no bad mods on map)(*). But you cant do that same thing (facetank boss on easy map) vs an ele boss (similar tier) like Crematorium with such a build. Its just that those builds are no longer used much. And weak sponge builds (in the hands of average player) get destroyed by this boss.
Consequently one question then would be: Should the game be adjusted to the (sponge) meta?


(*) I actually tested it this league.

I've no idea where you pulled your ideas from either, but you missed the point.

It doesn't matter if "can do", what is being talked about is balance, balance that means power in relation to rest of game.

I also have a build that can facetank him, and facetank the ele bosses you talk about and even afk on 98% game content without dying. The point being? Wait don't answer because there is none, because we are talking about relative balance of game content and this guy is nasty as a hell out of nowhere compared to others. I really don't care much if a build specialized in him can take him or not, he is still way more powerful than other map bosses.

My last experience with this guy in party. I'm playing a life spectral throw leecher (i pretty much leech instant full health and have high aps), which means i can just stand there and facetank him so long as he doesn't oneshot. So all good and well balanced right? Nah bullshit, this guy is broken, i was in party so they do something i don't even know what they do or kite him behind something for just half a second or something(which i don't even understand how since he was busy casting his wave), what happens? i die almost instantly even though i noticed what was happening and whirling blades twice away from cone to get away. Nope, just went SPLAT full hp almost instantly. Because he is so overtuned. Normally the full party dies on him while facerolling other t13-15 bosses. Lots of the time im there in party i end up soloing him while others are dead.

I don't really care if anything less than 1 shot can be "facetanked" with instant leech, or do so broken dps that he dies before being a threat, that's actually quite irrelevant and just bla bla talk compared to trying to balance things properly. And also you know they want to do away with instant leech, and too good scaling damage etc so you know they have no concern for the irrelevant points you make!

All you need to do is host maps and throw lair/dark forest in and youll see this map is not balanced! People die all over to this boss because not balanced for shit. He is way OP. It is very clear to see.

"

I also have a build that can facetank him, and facetank the ele bosses you talk about and even afk on 98% game content without dying. The point being? Wait don't answer because there is none, because we are talking about relative balance of game content and this guy is nasty as a hell out of nowhere compared to others. I really don't care much if a build specialized in him can take him or not, he is still way more powerful than other map bosses.

I don't think the Lair one is too bad. Actually there are some difference in boss difficulty on certain tiers all over the place. But in general the game rewards players not enough for boss encounters, even for the easier ones you get very little and if you have a fight where you actually have to play by the mechanics and not just run it down the rewards feel even worse. If a boss fight takes you half of the time of the entire map and drops basically nothing it feels bad even if the fight is well designed.

So overall bosses are just not rewarding enough to be hard. If there power would purely be based on the rewards they give they basically all have to be a lot easier, after all they drop not much more than an exile.

"

Towlg wrote:

"

zzang wrote:

call it cheezing i call it clever use of game mechanics with a build that is able to utilize it.

Some people thinks a game in Softcore should be BLAMT race.
Just don't understand them.
They can play HC SSF. Good game mode when optional.

So for you, not avoiding all of one boss' mechanics <=> BLAMT ?




PS : other t13 map bosses can also kill most builds ( "normal" builds ) very easily, the Waterway boss might be the weakest, but Scriptorium / Plaza / High gardens or even some others can also kill one very easily.
Of course the mods play a big part in that.
And one does not need to specialize into anything against Rigwald Junior, any build with 10k~15k armour won't get blown up by the wolve waves at all.

People pretenting that he is miles away from similar level map bosses might not have a lot of experience of high maps ...


It's funny seing some getting mad over a boss that just require a little bit of thinking ....
And it tells a lot about the current state of the playerbase and the meta, imho.

"

Fruz wrote:

It's funny seing some getting map over a boss that just require a little bit of thinking ....
And it tells a lot about the current state of the playerbase and the meta, imho.

Yeah all it does require is set a portal when players dont manage to beat him in time and go through portal go back wait invincible time for transform boss back and done.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

I don't really care if anything less than 1 shot can be "facetanked" with instant leech, or do so broken dps that he dies before being a threat, that's actually quite irrelevant and just bla bla talk compared to trying to balance things properly. And also you know they want to do away with instant leech, and too good scaling damage etc so you know they have no concern for the irrelevant points you make!

All you need to do is host maps and throw lair/dark forest in and youll see this map is not balanced! People die all over to this boss because not balanced for shit. He is way OP. It is very clear to see.

I fully agree without meta build lair and dark forest rigwalds are extremely overtuned compared to the rest of the bosses especially in party. The boss is very party unfriendly.

His impact on party might be bigger indeed, I'm always solo so I cannot tell about that ...

But people should be either prepared, or if they don't know it very cautious, because running blind into an unknown t13 boss' arena and rushing the boss without thinking is plain stupid.

You know Fruz, don't think anyone here are complaining about his balance after blind rushing him like an idiot and dying a deserved first death.