Lair Map -> Boss needs balancing

If you dont want to answer my questions - I dont mind. It would be helpful to just say so though.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

It actually does, it means that devs should be(and are), working to bring the main body of the game within an area of balance where it feels good.

This "feels good" is a perspective thing. See the build I mentioned before: Its not an anti-Lair boss build as you claimed. It was intended as a general build which can do most things. However: For certain elemental bosses I had to change equipment to get +max resist or more spell block. So in your sense (as described earlier) bosses with strong elemental damage dont "feel good". They are balanced around sponge, insta leech, "broken DPS" or +max resist builds.

I have answered it.

I dare you to answer me in a more timelessly true fashion if you believe the answer to be so vague.

But i'll tell you what i don't think we should keep arguing this because we argue similar things. I don't know how it got twisted into this, i probably shot at you because you seemed to be another from the crowd of this thread. I actually saw later you were reasonable enough, and thought damn i hope he don't start some argument now since i had already attacked you and.. well..

I could argue a lot more coz some of your arguments are... But ill leave it just at these.

"It was intended as a general build which can do most things."

"phys attack mitigation build (and anti-bleed)"

Is this not specialized against this boss? - your example, not mine. Whatever lets leave this mess, i haven't actually noticed us disagree on anything we just bickering over words.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

"It was intended as a general build which can do most things."

"phys attack mitigation build (and anti-bleed)"

Phys attacks are by far the most frequent thing monsters in the game use vs player. I dont consider this as specialized vs Lair boss. For me its one type of build. ES sponge build is another. They play differently but both are viable vs the 98%. The ES sponge is however currently far more popular. I dont want to argue word definition anyway. Point being is that you dont seem to think that the kind of build which I used should have "equal standing". I dont want to argue this either as its your opinion and you are "entitled" to it.

Regarding the anti-bleed: I use anti bleed (boots or utility flask) on all my builds. Especially on such a build (only 5-6K life vs degen) corrupting blood from bloodline is very dangerous.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

I have answered it.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Is this not specialized against this boss? - your example, not mine. Whatever lets leave this mess, i haven't actually noticed us disagree on anything we just bickering over words.

I do think our perspective is very different. Anyway I was mostly just trying to figure yours out. Which was not successful as you dont give direct answers to my questions and I cannot interpret your indirect answers.

My perspective is this. I'm here like all other topics i go in on, because i feel it's onto something. So i am here to support it, in the hopes it will be addressed. And as always i just try to condense the truth as much as i find it possible and then bringing that to light, as well as bringing to light the flaws in others' views i consider opposing to my goals.

But i honestly don't know what your perspective is, because you are very careful not to include your inner stance in anything, but i still haven't noticed a direct disagreement.

You can be sure however, that whether it is a ele or phys boss, i will still address it if i feel it is not in balance. That's what i mean, you are right enough in saying that, but ultimately it's entirely irrelevant(strawman). Because it makes no difference to me the damage types, only if it is balanced or not.

"

PerfectXtreme wrote:

Plenty of forum posts and chat about how bad this fight is tuned.

We have multiple people in our group, each have run this map solo and in groups. Some people have trouble with different bosses based on their build.

This boss is a prime example of horrible design and balance. He destroyed almost everyone in seconds...

Tier 13 is where map bossfights start to require both good mechanics and a specialized defense.

It's intended to be exactly as difficult as it is, which is still quite easy. Let's talk again when you've completed dark forest, which will tear you to shreds if rigwald was difficult for you in lair.

And still, dark forest rigwald's difficulty level is appropriate. And even he should only kill you if you're attempting "fun" map modifiers.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

But i honestly don't know what your perspective is, because you are very careful not to include your inner stance in anything, but i still haven't noticed a direct disagreement.

I dont have a "disagreement" about Lair boss being too powerful or not. I dont have a strong (if any) opinion on that. So it would be hard to "notice" such a disagreement. (And I pointed this out right in the beginning - didnt seem to help though...)

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Is this not specialized against this boss?

It depends how far you've maxed your effective healing vs very high dps, rapid-hit physical attacks. The stated build (high reduction, staunching) is only part way down the road. Needs further specialization.

68 RigwaldWolfBarrage 90% less Attack Speed
monster_reverse_point_blank_damage_-%_at_minimum_range [25]
2 additional Projectiles
200% increased Accuracy Rating
90% reduced Damage taken (to note here this does not reduce the attack's damage, it reduces damage rigwald takes from all sources. Ever wonder why you can't leech anything while he's channeling this?)

It's definitely a 100% physi attack (unless map modifiers add ele)
It has a very massive accuracy boost, so evasion's usefulness is suspect.
Block and dodge will have absurdly high value.

This attack hits for rigwald's base damage with no damage multiplier and at an insane fire rate. Is physi reduction anti-bleed specialized for him? Well, maybe that's part of it, but his dps is still going to be way too high. You're going to have to specialize further to tank it. Or just leap away while he's winding up. You're not gaining much time by facetanking it anyway; that 90% damage reduction during the channel kills both your dps and your healing.

A built truly specialized to tank this attack would have:
- Either enfeeble or arctic armour (AA is probably more effective here, due to the ground chill and rigwald's accuracy boost)
- at least 6 endurance charges, hopefully more like 8, and fortify.
- extremely high armour, at least 40k after drinking a 100% granite
- Some block, better than at least 40%
- Vaal grace and a quartz flask
- Increased leech rate, significant life leech, very high single target dps, and a leech rate cap of at least 25%.

"

Zakaluka wrote:

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Is this not specialized against this boss?

It depends how far you've maxed your effective healing vs very high dps, rapid-hit physical attacks. The stated build (high reduction, staunching) is only part way down the road. Needs further specialization.

As this is about my build: It is regen based totem build and the gear I used then has no "on hit" or "on block" or "on damage taken" kind of healing. So the recovery part was only due to %regen.

"

Zakaluka wrote:

It has a very massive accuracy boost, so evasion's usefulness is suspect.

Blind works I suppose. Probably used Stibnite flask as it is one of my "always on" flasks for this build.

"

Zakaluka wrote:

This attack hits for rigwald's base damage with no damage multiplier

"monster_reverse_point_blank_damage_-%_at_minimum_range [25]"?

"

Zakaluka wrote:

You're going to have to specialize further to tank it.

This was an empirical test and it worked. Far as I remember: At the worst point in the test I lost ~1000 ehp. Out of ~7000. Dont remember all the defensive details which I used.

"

Zrevnur wrote:

"

Zakaluka wrote:

This attack hits for rigwald's base damage with no damage multiplier

"monster_reverse_point_blank_damage_-%_at_minimum_range [25]"?

Ah, right. Kind of a double edged sword, when you're standing point blank the projectiles do 50% decreased damage but you have to tank every single one of them. When you disengage you're still in danger because projectile damage goes up and your leech is diminishing.

Do you have a comment on the (90% reduced Damage taken)? I truly believe this eliminates any benefit to facetanking his barrage. The boss is taking 90% reduced damage from all sources. Why go to the effort?

"

Zrevnur wrote:

This was an empirical test and it worked. Far as I remember: At the worst point in the test I lost ~1000 ehp. Out of ~7000. Dont remember all the defensive details which I used.

Fair enough, I'm not completely specialized for rigwald on my dw cleave gladiator and I can tank his barrage in lair. But, have you tanked it in dark forest? I can almost do it when the map mods are favorable for me.

I hoped to point out that just having two of the eight wickets for a specialized defense doesn't necessarily entitle anyone to face tank this attack. You don't have to go all the way, but you at least have to take a few more steps. Or just back down when you see him winding up (probably a better idea)

You don't have to spec into something like this. Get a few switches. Switch a couple potions. Switch a piece of gear with different vaal skills socketed. Keep it around for when you pull out a dark forest map.

"

Zakaluka wrote:

A built truly specialized to tank this attack would have:
- Either enfeeble or arctic armour (AA is probably more effective here, due to the ground chill and rigwald's accuracy boost)
- at least 6 endurance charges, hopefully more like 8, and fortify.
- extremely high armour, at least 40k after drinking a 100% granite
- Some block, better than at least 40%
- Vaal grace and a quartz flask
- Increased leech rate, significant life leech, very high single target dps, and a leech rate cap of at least 25%.

If you actually do want a build which is specialized vs Rigwald then you have to add Aegis or some other such mechanic. Which I didnt have. So I dont think my build could "fairly" be called "specialized vs Rigwald". Aegis (or similar) is "the" counter mechanic for wolf stream.