"GGG considers it impossible for melee to reach t15 "
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Idk, everyone was getting along fine having a constructive discussion until a certain person came in here saying you don't take damage from certain mechanics by only being in melee range, so there's not really anywhere else for the discussion to go until we can all agree that the sky is blue and the earth rotates around the sun.
There are certain things in a conversation that are essentially given in order to have a constructive conversation, such as understanding of the language being used and common knowledge of the subject at hand. When someone says "due to ranged being able to clear content faster..." and then makes a point, we both understand the underlying assumption so we can discuss the topic. In this case we have an individual who doesn't understand that there are mechanics whereby a ranged character does not take damage and melee does, so we can't continue discussing the issue anymore because the agreed upon assumption (which is actually a fact) is no longer agreed upon. At this point no further discussion can be had until said individual either accepts the fact, or stops posting. Or we can all just ignore him, idk. It looks like deliberate derailment to me, but there isn't moderation for that, only for telling said people to fuck off does the moderating occur. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 12:19:27 PM
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"It is a fact in PoE, given the game's design. It is not necessarily a fact in ARPGs in general. The reason why it's true in PoE is twofold: 1. The melee character can just be faster than the enemy. One example in current PoE is Vaal Oversoul Slam. You can get in with melee, deal some damage, then sidestep the actual blow. That's an extreme example, and telegraphs with a shorter window before manual dodge are possible. Unfortunately, GGG's commitment to telegraphed attacks is inconsistent. 2. The ranged character has vastly superior clearspeed, particularly in relation to enemy movement speed. If melee enemies could ever consistently close the distance on ranged characters, the issue in #1 would become relevant - ranged would either need to move to avoid the attack, or would be damaged by it. If ranged clearspeed - from the moment of enemy detection to a fully cleared screen - was equal to melee, these "move or tank" moments would be roughly equalized between melee and ranged. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Sep 26, 2016, 12:53:59 PM
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Well this is the poe forum so.
More to the point, you and I can both agree on this fact while certain other unnamed persons cannot. Thus facilitating the ability to have discussion on the issue between yourself and I and not so much with said unnamed persons. In the case of vaal slam specifically, unless I'm mistaken his ai doesn't even slam if the character is out of range at all. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 1:08:50 PM
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" Yeah but as an evasion char even if ranged, you stay close to him, because his falling rocks and his laser are actually more dangerous, so whenever he does his slam he basically gives the player free attack time, although honestly he is one of the most vulnerable bosses to stone golems or decoy totems. | |
" Nope, you're wrong again. You attacked many people in this thread.. I stopped posted because this thread became nothing except for personal attacks. And GGG warned you (and everyone else) about that. " " " I hope GGG does lock this thread that's gone way past "civil" conversation. ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▒▒▒▒░░░░░ cipher_nemo ░░░░░▒▒▒▒ │ Waggro Level: ♠○○○○ │ 1244 ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ |
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I completely agree that OHKO are lazy design and I'm dismayed that PoE development keeps heading in this direction.
Bursts of up to 4k HP are fine -- this is a reasonable amount of damage to expect any reasonable build to tank. Bursts of more than this are strategically and tactically uninteresting: - good game design rewards consistently good decision, and punishes consistently poor decisions. OHKOs punish momentary inattentiveness by otherwise good players, lag spikes, and hardware or software hiccups, none of which are skill-testing. - OHKOs lead to an Energy-Shield-dominated meta as players try to gain an ever-greater buffer against absurdly large hits, limiting build diversity - OHKOs render armor and evasion useless as a primary form of guaranteeing survivability, limiting build diversity - OHKOs punish exploration and experimentation, especially untelegraphed OHKOs. Players are incentivized to pore over online boss videos in order to survive surprise OHKO moves, instead of learning themselves how to beat the boss experimentally. An ideal tough boss fight has the player spending a minute or two fruitlessly attacking and parrying the boss's attacks, before realizing that the fight is hopeless and teleporting away. I have a much bigger problem with OHKO that appear out of nowhere or nearly out of nowhere (the OP, Shaper, Malachai) than those that are heavily telegraphed. I think that Dominus's Touch of God is right at the cusp of an attack I consider acceptable: he shouts "The Touch of God!" or "Die in Awe!" and the ground starts glowing in obvious warning, so that even first-time players know that it's time to get out of the way. Even still, I think the fight would be richer if Touch of God left players with double-digit HP, rather than killing them outright. Again, OHKO are very frustrating, yet tactically and strategically uninteresting, and so have dubious place in a well-designed game. | |
" I attacked ONE person in this thread, and that person was more damaging to the constructive nature of the thread than the attacks on him were. And the thing about emphasy's book was probably a bit too offensive but I'm pretty sure even he realizes that was an attack on his post size and not on him. Sorry you don't agree, good luck getting the thread locked. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 4:37:05 PM
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" Evasion isn't specific to ranged or melee, and I've never found the falling rocks or the laser to be dangerous really. Well, assuming you move when they happen. The laser specifically is a GREAT mechanic though IMO, hits everyone ranged or melee equally, hits hard, and has a chance to shock, so while you can eat one without worrying too much about ridiculous OHKO you don't facetank them. That's how a lethal mechanic should be designed. Very similar to CB. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 4:35:03 PM
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" Best post on this thread, +46283940 internet E-reputations. God damn I really wish there were more people with good sense posting in here like this my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 4:40:10 PM
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"Which means: you think it should OHKO players with 100 less Life than you. Right? This is why you can't design for an OHKO-free environment. One man's "oh shit" moment is another's resurrect screen. What's important to me is: as far as OHKOs go, there should be an inverse correlation between 1. your defensive investment and 2. how quick your reactions need to be to avoid telegraphed lethal damage. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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